Letter to the FAA

The death toll doesn't match your hyperbole

In your article on "Launch Emergencies" you state that the odds are
50/50 of something going bad on each launch. Either it will or it
wont. Experiencing something go bad on a launch such as what happened to
me will convince any tow pilot of the imperative need to have a positive
and unfettered chance to release the glider. As you said, the Tost
release mechanism is not affected by vertical or horizontal loads
imposed by a glider flying in an out of bounds towing position. Clearly
the Scnweizer hook is affected by such conditions rendering it useless.


In a low, severe kiting incident such as mine the tow pilot must
react in an instant. Anything that delays that reaction can result in a
catastrophy. Relying on the rope to break under such circumstances is
not a good alternative to a positive release mechanism. Any commercial
operator or club still operating with a Schweizer hook and/or a release
handle not conveniently available to the pilot is playing Russian
roulette with the life of their tow pilot.


Walt




--
Walt Connelly

Originally Posted by

The death toll doesn't match your hyperbole

In your article on "Launch Emergencies" you state that the odds are
50/50 of something going bad on each launch. Either it will or it
wont. Experiencing something go bad on a launch such as what happened to
me will convince any tow pilot of the imperative need to have a positive
and unfettered chance to release the glider. As you said, the Tost
release mechanism is not affected by vertical or horizontal loads
imposed by a glider flying in an out of bounds towing position. Clearly
the Scnweizer hook is affected by such conditions rendering it useless.


In a low, severe kiting incident such as mine the tow pilot must
react in an instant. Anything that delays that reaction can result in a
catastrophy. Relying on the rope to break under such circumstances is
not a good alternative to a positive release mechanism. Any commercial
operator or club still operating with a Schweizer hook and/or a release
handle not conveniently available to the pilot is playing Russian
roulette with the life of their tow pilot.


Walt




--
Walt Connelly

"The death toll doesn't match my hyperbole?" How many deaths would it take to convince you GREGG? I was a second or two from being one of them but I am alive and letting it be known that this system does NOT work under severe circumstances as the FAA and SSA well know.

I have identified enough deaths clearly attributable to this malfunction to make my case. As I have noted time and time again the SSA and the FAA in their publications and Advisory Circulars clearly indicate (the SSA indication is in RED) that under certain conditions the release may not work. It is exactly under those conditions when it needs to work the most and if it doesn't the result can be fatal. I was there, within a second or two of hitting the ground when the rope broke, not something one can count on every time an idiot kites on you at low altitude.

My recommendations will address proper position of release handles, increasing mechanical advantage of these handles and at a minimum, inverting the Schweizer hook for which there is an STC or installing Tost releases on tow planes expected to tow gliders that exceed 1500 lbs maximum gross weight. It is my understanding that these glider exceed the limits of the Schweizer hook regardless of their installation.

I can listen to all the weak, anectdotal comments about how "a Schweizer hook saved my uncle Bill." That's what it's supposed to do but when it does what it's NOT supposed to do, FAIL, there is a problem that needs to be addressed. I can listen to "I have 30K hours flying and I always knew where the release was." I know where it was too, do you think I'm that big an idiot? Or "you are waiting too long to pull the release." Obviously this comment is from someone who has NOT experienced an instantaneous kiting situation. Not all kiting situations are slowly evolving ones that you can see begin in the mirror, they can be sudden and severe and any thing that delays the chances of release from the towplane need to be fixed. Need I go on?

Walt

If it was really 50-50 nobody would be flying. Did that statistic come
from MSNBC or Johnny Depp?

On 6/24/2017 9:44 PM, wrote:
The death toll doesn't match your hyperbole

In your article on "Launch Emergencies" you state that the odds are
50/50 of something going bad on each launch. Either it will or it
wont. Experiencing something go bad on a launch such as what happened to
me will convince any tow pilot of the imperative need to have a positive
and unfettered chance to release the glider. As you said, the Tost
release mechanism is not affected by vertical or horizontal loads
imposed by a glider flying in an out of bounds towing position. Clearly
the Scnweizer hook is affected by such conditions rendering it useless.


In a low, severe kiting incident such as mine the tow pilot must
react in an instant. Anything that delays that reaction can result in a
catastrophy. Relying on the rope to break under such circumstances is
not a good alternative to a positive release mechanism. Any commercial
operator or club still operating with a Schweizer hook and/or a release
handle not conveniently available to the pilot is playing Russian
roulette with the life of their tow pilot.


Walt




--
Walt Connelly

--
Dan, 5J

[quote=Dan Marotta;949727]If it was really 50-50 nobody would be flying. Did that statistic come
from MSNBC or Johnny Depp?

Actually it was in an article from Tom Knauff called "Launching Emergencies." I read everything I can find on the subject. I saw the humor, the tongue in cheek of what he said, did you not?

http://www.eglider.org/NewsArticles/...mergencies.htm

Walt

A wee bit disingenuous there Walt. Here is the quote 'The odds are 50/50 of something bad happening on each launch. Either it will or it won’t!' Article goes on to list 41 possible tow emergencies, The Schweizer hook is not named and might be a complicating factor in one of the 41. Doesn't help your case. Now of course there is a way to eliminate all 41, stay home. But you don't want safety, personal or for everyone else. You want to get recess canceled because you got a wedgie on the playground.
On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 8:43:09 PM UTC-4, Walt Connelly wrote:
Dan Marotta;949727 Wrote:
If it was really 50-50 nobody would be flying. Did that statistic come

from MSNBC or Johnny Depp?

Actually it was in an article from Tom Knauff called "Launching
Emergencies." I read everything I can find on the subject. I saw the
humor, the tongue in cheek of what he said, did you not?

http://www.eglider.org/NewsArticles/...mergencies.htm

Walt




--
Walt Connelly

Originally Posted by

A wee bit disingenuous there Walt. Here is the quote 'The odds are 50/50 of something bad happening on each launch. Either it will or it won’t!' Article goes on to list 41 possible tow emergencies, The Schweizer hook is not named and might be a complicating factor in one of the 41. Doesn't help your case. Now of course there is a way to eliminate all 41, stay home. But you don't want safety, personal or for everyone else. You want to get recess canceled because you got a wedgie on the playground.
On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 8:43:09 PM UTC-4, Walt Connelly wrote:
Dan Marotta;949727 Wrote:
If it was really 50-50 nobody would be flying. Did that statistic come

from MSNBC or Johnny Depp?

Actually it was in an article from Tom Knauff called "Launching
Emergencies." I read everything I can find on the subject. I saw the
humor, the tongue in cheek of what he said, did you not?

http://www.eglider.org/NewsArticles/...mergencies.htm

Walt




--
Walt Connelly

I believe number 13 was "glider gets too high." Mr Knoff appeared to be speaking from the standpoint of the glider and glider pilot but clearly he understands the effect of the glider on the tow plane. Just because he didn't specifically state the known problems with the Schweizer hook does not mean he is not aware.

Did you read his comments about changing from Schweizer to Tost and his interactions with the FAA? He, like a handful of others who have contacted me recognized a serious problem and delt with it.

Your posts do amuse me as I slurp my morning coffee and keeping me amused is a good thing.

Have a great day my friend.

Walt

On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 2:43:07 PM UTC-4, Walt Connelly wrote:
;949735 Wrote:
On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 2:30:04 PM UTC-4, Don Johnstone wrote:-
At 03:44 25 June 2017, wrote:-
The death toll doesn't match your hyperbole
-
How many pilots have to die before you act, give me a number.-

Couple of posts back I suggested several acts that are more productive
than squealing to the teacher. You want a number, I'll give you an
equation: When the yearly towpilot death toll = the yearly glider pilot
death toll. Glider pilot lives matter too. Simple solution is to write
letters demanding the FAA ban gliding. All those glider pilot's lives
and by default towpilot's lives saved. Brilliant.

You are missing a point here Mr Ballou but I can't help but feel that
missing the point is what you do best.

What a glider pilots does once off tow does not affect the tow pilot,
what they do on tow does. Yes, gliders crash not infrequently resulting
in the death of the pilot and occasionally a passenger but that is not
the fault of the tow pilot, that is exclusively the fault of the glider
pilot. When a tow pilot crashes as a result of a glider pilot's
failure to stay in position I become concerned. When a device meant to
give the tow pilot a fighting chance to survive does not work, is known
to be prone to failure I take great exception. Does this not make sense
to you?

If you wish to kill yourself that is your decision, fly on my friend, I
shall not interfere. If you wish to kill me we will have conflict.

Walt




--
Walt Connelly

You are taking pilots mistakes as an intentional attempt on your life. And trying to get revenge through big gov. They didn't mean to kill you, revenge is not warranted. And if it was using the gov is the sissy way.
Prove you ain't about vengeance, simple task, collect 337s on Tost installs on L-19 Birddogs and post it here. Several have expressed interest. I can even give you a hint as I understand a Philadelphia area club pulled it off. Here is your chance to make towing safer. Or you could write your letter to punish all those evil heartless people with Schweizer hooks.

On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 12:43:07 PM UTC-6, Walt Connelly wrote:
;949735 Wrote:
On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 2:30:04 PM UTC-4, Don Johnstone wrote:-
At 03:44 25 June 2017, wrote:-
The death toll doesn't match your hyperbole
-
How many pilots have to die before you act, give me a number.-

Couple of posts back I suggested several acts that are more productive
than squealing to the teacher. You want a number, I'll give you an
equation: When the yearly towpilot death toll = the yearly glider pilot
death toll. Glider pilot lives matter too. Simple solution is to write
letters demanding the FAA ban gliding. All those glider pilot's lives
and by default towpilot's lives saved. Brilliant.

You are missing a point here Mr Ballou but I can't help but feel that
missing the point is what you do best.

What a glider pilots does once off tow does not affect the tow pilot,
what they do on tow does. Yes, gliders crash not infrequently resulting
in the death of the pilot and occasionally a passenger but that is not
the fault of the tow pilot, that is exclusively the fault of the glider
pilot. When a tow pilot crashes as a result of a glider pilot's
failure to stay in position I become concerned. When a device meant to
give the tow pilot a fighting chance to survive does not work, is known
to be prone to failure I take great exception. Does this not make sense
to you?

If you wish to kill yourself that is your decision, fly on my friend, I
shall not interfere. If you wish to kill me we will have conflict.

Walt




--
Walt Connelly

Hi Walt,
What I may have missed is how many tow's had you done and how long ago was it before finding out about this possible "release" problem? It seems like most have responded trying to offer their view in a way which has been thought about before.
As I know you, along with the many other's, they have appeared to me, to give reasonable guidance and thought when asked about this possible problem.
It also appears from the FAA they have given this review and guidance.
No one wishes "bad" on anyone, as many "bad's" can happen. If you knew of this problem long ago, why did you keep on towing until "almost bad" happened? As this current "action" is your choice, do they not have that same choice? Just asking....that's all.
Still, will miss you at Seminole, as I had towed behind you many times over the years and still remember when you first started towing. Best wherever your travels take you!

Best. Tom #711

From Walt's first post under the Tow Upsets thread that started this discussion:

"I have been towing for about two and a half years and have logged over
6,500 tows."

Paul A.

Originally Posted by Tom Kelley #711

On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 12:43:07 PM UTC-6, Walt Connelly wrote:
;949735 Wrote:
On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 2:30:04 PM UTC-4, Don Johnstone wrote:-
At 03:44 25 June 2017, wrote:-
The death toll doesn't match your hyperbole
-
How many pilots have to die before you act, give me a number.-

Couple of posts back I suggested several acts that are more productive
than squealing to the teacher. You want a number, I'll give you an
equation: When the yearly towpilot death toll = the yearly glider pilot
death toll. Glider pilot lives matter too. Simple solution is to write
letters demanding the FAA ban gliding. All those glider pilot's lives
and by default towpilot's lives saved. Brilliant.

You are missing a point here Mr Ballou but I can't help but feel that
missing the point is what you do best.

What a glider pilots does once off tow does not affect the tow pilot,
what they do on tow does. Yes, gliders crash not infrequently resulting
in the death of the pilot and occasionally a passenger but that is not
the fault of the tow pilot, that is exclusively the fault of the glider
pilot. When a tow pilot crashes as a result of a glider pilot's
failure to stay in position I become concerned. When a device meant to
give the tow pilot a fighting chance to survive does not work, is known
to be prone to failure I take great exception. Does this not make sense
to you?

If you wish to kill yourself that is your decision, fly on my friend, I
shall not interfere. If you wish to kill me we will have conflict.

Walt




--
Walt Connelly

Hi Walt,
What I may have missed is how many tow's had you done and how long ago was it before finding out about this possible "release" problem? It seems like most have responded trying to offer their view in a way which has been thought about before.
As I know you, along with the many other's, they have appeared to me, to give reasonable guidance and thought when asked about this possible problem.
It also appears from the FAA they have given this review and guidance.
No one wishes "bad" on anyone, as many "bad's" can happen. If you knew of this problem long ago, why did you keep on towing until "almost bad" happened? As this current "action" is your choice, do they not have that same choice? Just asking....that's all.
Still, will miss you at Seminole, as I had towed behind you many times over the years and still remember when you first started towing. Best wherever your travels take you!

Best. Tom #711

Good Morning Tom,

Hope all is well with 711. Two of the great facts of life is that we don't know what we don't know and what you don't know can kill you.

When I was asked to tow at SLGP (because the manager and other tow pilot were having coflict with the owner and were leaving) I wasn't quite sure what I was getting into but life is an adventure. I accepted and as you might guess one learns to tow by towing and experiencing all that towing has to offer along the way. I took it easy, kept my head on my shoulders and was fortunate enough to have a couple of hundred tows before I began to realize how badly an out of position glider could affect the tow plane.

I had over 6500 tows when I experience two severe kiting events in one week, they happen in the wink of an eye and anything that might interfere with the ability of the tow pilot to release the glider is a major problem. (read my intial post under "Tow Plane Upsets" for a more comprehensive explantion of these two events.) I had read the available information about the Schweizer hook failings and had spoken with other tow pilots about releasing. The best answer I could get was "release early." Well, not all kiting events happen in a slowly evolving manner with the tow pilot watching in the mirror, sometimes they happen in the wink of an eye and you have to be looking forward, left and right much of the time to avoid running into those pesky, white, high performance gliders.

The FAA's "review and guidance" appears to be a bit nebulous with a statement in the Advisory Circular # 43.13-2B (or not 2b) that says, "When the glider on tow operates above a certain angle to the tow plane, the ring may slide upwards on the hook causing excessive load on the hook and difficulty in releasing the tow rope ring." I don't know about you but I come from a family of lawyers and can hear the lawyer speak all over that comment. Perhaps what it should say is "when the glider kites on you in the wink of an eye, the SCHWEIZER hook will jam and you are along for the ride until the rope breaks or your ass hits the ground." In my case had the rope not broken or had it broken a second later you would be reading about my death and not hearing from my happy ass on Aviation Banter.

The "reasonable guidance" from others thus far seems to include, 1. Not writing the letter to the FAA. 2. Go away and leave the rest of us alone. 3. Compile a list of 337's and STC's and distribute them to those glider operations and clubs who still fly with Schweizer hooks. 4. Other rather simplistic approaches to a complex problem none of which really enhance safety. 5. Did I miss something that made sense, if so let me know.

Yes, every tow pilot has the same choice to fly or not to fly and I would be surprised that any tow pilot had not heard about the potential problems with the Schweizer hook. It does not hit home until you find yourself at 300 feet with a student screwing up to the Nth degree while pulling your tail up and to the right, your nose down and to the left and you are trying desparately to release. Interestingly enough, this 15 year old student was described by the most experienced CFIG I know as one who should not be flying. She was soloed by the most inexperienced CFIG I know, go figure.

I am trying to compose a letter to the FAA that will not hamper or inhibit the world of soaring. My suggestions will be to at a minimum require the Schweizer hook to be inverted for which there is an STC. My understanding is that the Schweizer hook is limited to towing gliders under 1500 lbs max gross weight and that the rope strength is limited to 1200 lbs. This, if correct would eliminate the Schweizer hook from operations towing the heavier gliders, I am still researching this information. Again, we don't know what we don't know. In addition I feel that it is important to reposition release handles from the floor (on Pawnees) to a position up near the throttle which will give the pilot an extra second or two to react. This has been mandated by the BGA after the deaths of several tow pilots.

The basic position I am running into from others on this forum is that there have not been enough deaths to warrant any mandates to switch to Tost. That being said I do have my supporters.

Our system does not make it easy to do this research but I have found deaths directly attributable to this condition. I have spoken with someone who knew the pilot who died and whose death fostered the inverted Schweizer hook. Did you read the post from Dave Springford? Thirty years ago their club experienced an accident attributable to a Schweizer hook and changed to Tost with a release up near the throttle. My guess is that the pilot survived and was able to elucidate what happened. The BGA as I believe I have noted before had mandated these changes. Of course I am told that the Canadians and Brits are under different systems and we are under the FAA. I understand this but this does not negate the fact that they recognized a problem and found a solution, we can do the same.

As someone who was a second or two from being a statistic I feel compelled to insure that this is well known and that some action be taken. I may not succeed but I will try. If you have any suggestions I would be happy to entertain them.

Hoping all your landings are happy ones and I always enjoy reading "711 Reporting."

Walt