gunpods on Phantoms

John S. Shinal wrote:
(Rob van Riel) wrote:

Navy Phantoms were capable of carrying a 20mm gunpod, but there is an
abundance of references stating this weapon was worse than useless
for
air to air use, and thus not carried. However, I can't really find
any
reference on the use of the gun in air to ground work. I know Air
Force Phantoms used gunpods for this, but did the Navy?

They may not exactly have been 'useless' for air-to-air, the
USAF's 366th TFW "Gunfighters" scored a number of times with the pod.

There were actually three different pods in play here, I believe. THe Air
Force had the SUU-16 and SUU-23, both based on Gatling guns and both, I
belive, using linkelss feeds.

The Navy was using a different pod, the Mk 4, with the rather unusual
dual-barrel Mk 11 revolver canon. I've heard some rather unfavorable
remarks about the MK 4, that it was no good at all for air-to-air becuase it
jammed if you pulled G while firing (it was belt-fed, not linkless). But I
don't know this as a fact.

--
Tom Schoene Replace "invalid" with "net" to e-mail
"Our country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right, when
wrong to be put right." - Senator Carl Schurz, 1872

I stand corrected; was I reasonably close with regard to the other stuff I
wrung out? :-)

cheers,
Morten

"Mike Kanze" wrote in message
...
Morten,

4000 lbs JP4

Microscopic nit: Carrier-borne aircraft used JP5 in my day. Higher
flashpoint, thus safer around the boat. Not sure, but ISTR the boat uses
another JP type these days?!

Ashore, they burn JP4, allowing XC stops at the nice golf courses
positioned
at nearly all AFBs. g

rest of thread snipped :-)

(John S. Shinal) wrote in message ...
(Rob van Riel) wrote:

Navy Phantoms were capable of carrying a 20mm gunpod, but there is an
abundance of references stating this weapon was worse than useless for
air to air use, and thus not carried. However, I can't really find any
reference on the use of the gun in air to ground work. I know Air
Force Phantoms used gunpods for this, but did the Navy?

They may not exactly have been 'useless' for air-to-air, the
USAF's 366th TFW "Gunfighters" scored a number of times with the pod.

If I recall correctly, that was a different gun in a different pod. I
seem to remember reading the shots tended to scatter too widely to be
very good at dogfighting (though not useless, as you pointed out), but
this same scattering made it a good weapon for strafing.

Rob

Ogden Johnson III wrote in message . ..
Marine Corps F-4s certainly did. We've always liked cannons,
whether ground-based artillery or airborne .30 cals, .50 cals,
20mm, 30mm. [Or even the 105mm carried by Puff and its
descendants.]

Thanks for the info. I'll add it to my list of things to put under USMC Phantoms.

Rob

Walt- Pechs- did the Navy F4B have an air to air computing gunsight like the
USAF F4D? BRBR

Don't think so altho the only F-4C time I had was in CIS at Luke AFB.

In 'D' models, we used the SUU-23 all the time in A-G, none against the dart
tho..In RTU, 61st and 13th at MacDill.
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

robvr- Almost makes sense, mainly because I never flew anything myself, let
alone a Navy jet. Would 2 and 2 mean 2 Sparrow, 2 Sidewinder? What do
max trap values mean? BRBR

Max trap for the F-4 was 40,000 pounds. Empty F-4S weighed about 34k, F-4J was
33000 or so. 2 and 2 weighed about 1500 lbs. Only 6000 to play with to get to
40k. If ya added a 2000 lb gun pod(2000 or 1000??), then max trap fuel was
kinda low.
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

We used 4.0 day time, 5.1 night time or non-case 1 daytime. We used to pull the
cb on tank 7 so it wouldn't transfer...held it until recovery so you could be
5.1 twice on the ball if ya went into the penalty box. The CG thing w/o
sparrows aft wasn't a big deal.
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

John- Interesting info from Pechs1 about trap weight, though. The
USN may have had additional issues due to the gun getting banged about
during traps.
BRBR

The only gun pod the USN had was the non-20mm vulcan cannon version. Kinda like
a A-4 gun inna pod and to say it wan't reliable is putting it mildly. On my
first cruise in VF-33, 1975, no pods were on any boat, afaik.
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

(Pechs1) wrote:
robvr- Navy Phantoms were capable of carrying
a 20mm gunpod, but there is an
abundance of references stating this weapon
was worse than useless for
air to air use, and thus not carried. BRBR

The biggest obstacle was the weight of the thing
and how ya had to 'bring it
back'. If ya had 2 and 2 and the pod, max trap
was in the 4.0 range. Plus wing
tanks got the crap beat outta them on the boat.


P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter
and Combat Buckeye Phlyer
I always wondered why Navy Phantoms never carried the gun pod, despite
requests from pilots to have a gun. Didn't Randy Cunningham say that if he
had a gun on 10 May '72 he would've had several more MiG kills?

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"Pechs1" wrote in message
...
We used 4.0 day time, 5.1 night time or non-case 1 daytime. We used to
pull the
cb on tank 7 so it wouldn't transfer...held it until recovery so you could
be
5.1 twice on the ball if ya went into the penalty box. The CG thing w/o
sparrows aft wasn't a big deal.

Just enough change in CG to assist in pitch rate a bit. Once I got
reasonably proficient in the jet I could tell the difference between a late
and early block jet ... the early (non-transferring) being the preferred
ride.

R / John