Thrown out of an FBO...

If someone says "all pilots are spolied rich men", would you throw him
out of your house/airport/business?

It doesn't matter what I would do. That I would not do so does not make
such a comment polite.

The comment you mentioned above about Jews is not the same as the
examples we are talking about., The sole purpose of that comment is
derogatory and is meant to offend someone. I would rate that comment
along the same line as Jay pounding his fist and shouting at the FBO,
both of which call for a 'throwing out'.

Uh.... no.

The comment I mentioned about Jews
-- "in my experience, Jews are all cheap *******s"
is quite similar to Jay's comment:
-- "those guys are the cheapest SOBs around!"

Suppose the exchange had been a little different. The FBO owner is
Jewish, her husband is a Rabbi, and Jay (unknowingly) says:
"Yeah, the only time the tanks don't get filled
at our place is when a Rabbi uses our van --
those guys are the cheapest SOBs around!"

I really don't see the difference.

Jay walked in with a superior attitude which came to light in this exchange.

He did a nice thing - filling the tank. But then, tipping a waitress is
also a nice thing, isn't it? How about tipping your doctor after an
exam? That's just not done, and a doctor would probably refuse (and may
even be insulted). Tipping is often seen as something one does to
servants; it helps reinforce class distinctions.

-- He replied that we "Didn't have to do that..."
He turned down the tip, in a sense.

-- "Yeah, the only time the tanks don't get filled
at our place is when charter pilots use our van --
those guys are the cheapest SOBs around!"

That is effectively saying that Jay is better than those SOBs because he
filled the tank. Since the FBO person was also a charter pilot, Jay
must be better than him.

Not that he meant to insult him, but that's how the person took it, and
that is fair enough. What Jay said was insulting, even if (nudge nudge
wink wink)...

Jay, instead of apologizing, =justifies= his insult, saying that they
aren't paid enough. That's an example of the "superior attitude" I
refer to. Accident chain in progress - he's talking to the guy who pays
the charter pilots.

Then to top it off, they add insult to insult, when after being
(justifiably) thrown out, Mary comments that "Avoiding this place
shouldn't be too hard."

It may come to pass that somebody will get Jay's goat at the hotel, and
Jay will throw that SOB out on his derrier, fully believing he's in the
right. I wonder what =that= story will look like.

Jay says:
It's a shame -- with all the problems facing GA,
small-town airports simply can't afford to have
FBOs driving off what little business they have

I say that it's a shame that Jay insults and demeans fellow pilots who
are struggling to make a living at flying, and who are probably quite
generous in other ways. I'd go as far as to say that just =being= a
charter pilot is an act of generosity in itself.

Jay says:
My mistake was in believing that I was sharing an inside joke with an
FBO owner and fellow courtesy car provider. At least yesterday, this
guy was a charter pilot first, and an FBO owner as an afterthought --
and he took the joke personally.

At this point the best thing that might happen is that he sits down
with his pilots, and drills into them that they should ALWAYS fill the
courtesy car whenever they use it.

His mistake was more arrogance. (at this point I'm talking more to Jay
than to Andrew) The best thing that might happen is that Jay realize
that people are =people= first, and "couresy car providers" last. There
is nothing wrong with being a charter pilot "first" and a business owner
second. I wouldn't call it an afterthought at all. That's another
insult you are hurling out at a fellow pilot, who for all you know may
actually pay his charter pilots very well and only run the FBO so that
he can do so.

Did you buy any avgas?
Not this time. However, airports are publically owned for a reason --
their primary impact is that they bring lots of dollars into the local
economy. Thus, the "business" this guy drove off was the $30 we spent
at the local restaurant, the $15 we spent at the local gas station
(filling HIS tank) plus any future business we could provide to his
FBO.

So, taking the other side for a moment, why should a charter pilot care
about filling the tank? That courtsey car is attracting all this
business to the city, so the FBO should be thrilled about that. You too
shouldn't care whether pilots fill up your grape. But you do - enough
to spread ill will about charter pilots (whom you profess to love) and
think yourself superior.

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

How is being cheap considered to be less worthy?

Ask Jay. He finds charter pilots to be less worthy (of admiration for
their behavior).

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Morgans wrote:


"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

Newps wrote:

This isn't a racial issue. Charter pilots are from every demographic
and if the statement is true then it's true.


The point is that Jay hasn't seen every charter pilot out there. He's
seen a small sample, and possibly an unusually unrepresentative
sample, who nows? Making a sweeping generalization based on a small
sample isn't usually a good idea.


I'll bet that he has more experience at running an airport courtesy car
than you do, or most people on the group, for that matter.

I would say that makes him uniquely qualified to comment.

Well, I'd say from the results of his comments, your assertion is wrong.

Matt

"Richard Riley" wrote in message
...
You know, Jay, you could do us all a favor and let us know what FBO
this is. While I might buy gas from them if their price was in the
ball park and they were on the way, I certainly wouldn't let them work
on a plane I was flying.

There are 111 public airports* in Iowa. I guess we can assume that it isn't
the Iowa City airport. That leaves 109 good (public) airports and 1
'possibly' bad airport. That gives you less than a 1% chance of picking that
'bad' airport/FBO in Iowa. Those chances are good. Even if I did hit that
'bad' Iowa airport/FBO, chances are that my experience there may be
different than what Jay experienced. What happened to Jay there may not
happen to most other people.

-Greg B.

*http://www.iawings.com/airports/municipal_list.htm

Always ready with a snappy reply, you are.

Amazing.
--
Jim in NC

Jay Honeck wrote:
Exactly what "business" did he drive off? Did you buy any avgas?


Not this time. However, airports are publically owned for a reason --
their primary impact is that they bring lots of dollars into the local
economy. Thus, the "business" this guy drove off was the $30 we spent
at the local restaurant, the $15 we spent at the local gas station
(filling HIS tank) plus any future business we could provide to his
FBO.

To better illustrate this effect, an Iowa State University study (done
in 2000) of Iowa airports shows that our Iowa City airport directly and
INDIRECTLY brings $5.7 million dollars per year into the local economy.
That's a nice chunk of change, and is made up of hundreds
(thousands?) of little guys like me (and Mary) flying in.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"



Plus the trickle down effect of those of us who might have happened
across that field (when we learn the identity of it).. and all the
people we tell about it as well..

Whats the old adage.. if you like the way you were treated, you tell
your friends.. if you DISLIKE the way you were treated, you tell EVERYONE.

Dave

"Jose" wrote

... like saying "in my experience, Jews are all cheap *******s"?

What's next, Jose? Going to recite a Hitler speech?
--
Jim in NC

"The Visitor" wrote in message
...
He has nowhere near enough data points to justify a comment describing
"all" charter pilots.

Do you not need more data points to dispute it?

No. To support a blanket generalization, one needs to survey the entire
population. To refute a blanket generalization, one need only survey a
single member of the population, so long as that member is a
counter-example.

That's it Jay. All Hotel owners throughout the ENTIRE world are cheap
*******s. I literally sampled everyone and everyone knows it as fact.



hehehehe. Just kidding. ;-) Hope to visit your hotel someday. I've
heard great things about it.

Gerald
PPL-ASEL-IA, Holiday Inn (yuk) Platinum and Marriott Gold, and VERY
avid C-152 sim pilot

Bob Fry wrote:
"JH" == Jay Honeck writes:

JH He laughed and said that he "Had to fill the tank more often
JH than that!", to which I laughingly replied "Yeah, the only
JH time the tanks don't get filled at our place is when hotel
JH owners use our van -- those guys are the cheapest SOBs
JH around!"

I changed two words in the "quote" above. How does it feel?

Others have already said it better than I. I'll just add that it
sounds like the guy is both a charter pilot and runs a business of
charter pilots, and you accidently insulted his entire professional
life. What to you was an overreaction to him might have been
considerable restraint.

Actually I really wonder if this guy got offended because Jay's
observation was accurate about this guy. To me, it sounds like the
charter pilots who work for this guy have told this guy more than once
to go f**k himself and walked out on him leaving him and his paying
passengers/cargo (one and the same ;-) ) high and dry. After all if
this guy did not fit the alleged mold, then he should have told Jay,
"Well sorry to say your observation is not entirely correct. I take
great care of my pilots and that's why they work for me for so many years."

Gerald