CRJ crash at KLEX:

In article ,
Emily wrote:
As for your question about my judgment, thankfully, so far, it's been
good, and that's why I'm still alive. If I had to depend on "luck" to
keep me safe in an airplane, I wouldn't fly. However, accidents such as
this one demonstrate why careful consideration and good judgment are so
important in aviation.

Sorry, I'm standing by my thought that you can't criticize their
mistakes until you've been in that situation. Blame has no place in
something like this....but I'm coming at this as someone who analyzes
mistakes for a living.

Well, I'm a pilot, so I've been in that situation. I've never used the
wrong runway.

When I first heard about the possibility of the crew selecting the wrong
runway, I thought that perhaps the runways intersected at or very near
the threshold (see HUF for an example), where a single intersection
services two runways. In that case, it is certainly easier to make the
turn onto the wrong runway, but that is not the case at LEX.

Blame does have a place, because that's how the rest of us learn. If
there's no blame, and no fault, then there's nothing to learn.



JKG

Jonathan Goodish wrote:
In article ,
Emily wrote:
As for your question about my judgment, thankfully, so far, it's been
good, and that's why I'm still alive. If I had to depend on "luck" to
keep me safe in an airplane, I wouldn't fly. However, accidents such as
this one demonstrate why careful consideration and good judgment are so
important in aviation.
Sorry, I'm standing by my thought that you can't criticize their
mistakes until you've been in that situation. Blame has no place in
something like this....but I'm coming at this as someone who analyzes
mistakes for a living.

Well, I'm a pilot, so I've been in that situation. I've never used the
wrong runway.

Have you ever been in a two person crew, on an early morning flight, in
the weather conditions at LEX?

Blame does have a place, because that's how the rest of us learn. If
there's no blame, and no fault, then there's nothing to learn.

I believe cause is the better word. Instead of blaming the crew for
choosing the wrong runway, we need to find out WHY they did. Without
the why, the same mistake can be repeated. When I get word that someone
at work screwed up, I don't "blame" them, I work through the situation
to find out what happened and how to keep it from happening again. The
key is learning what happened so it can't be repeated, not finding out
who's to blame.

Well, I'm a pilot, so I've been in that situation. I've never used the
wrong runway.

What "situation" have you been in? Not having made a mistake doesn't
make you immune. You =will= make a mistake one day, and it will be
unexpected.

Blame does have a place, because that's how the rest of us learn. If
there's no blame, and no fault, then there's nothing to learn.

Blame has no place, reason (as in reason for the error) does. The
difference is one of attitude, which can cause one to stop analyzing
prematurely.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

As for your question about my judgment, thankfully, so far, it's been
good, and that's why I'm still alive. If I had to depend on "luck" to
keep me safe in an airplane, I wouldn't fly. However, accidents such as
this one demonstrate why careful consideration and good judgment are so
important in aviation.

Sorry, I'm standing by my thought that you can't criticize their
mistakes until you've been in that situation. Blame has no place in
something like this....but I'm coming at this as someone who analyzes
mistakes for a living.

Can't agree with you Emily. If the pilots took off on too short a
runway they screwed up royally and they alone are to blame.

Ron Lee

Emily wrote:



Have you ever been in a two person crew, on an early morning flight, in
the weather conditions at LEX?

Weather not a factor, it was VFR.

If you pull up a sat image of the airport it appears the thresholds for
22 and 26 are along the same line of sight from the tower. It wouldn't
have been obvious the airplane was at the wrong runway from the tower..

Most of us who are instrument rated use the runway centerline as a
final verification the DG is aligned, and I'd sure declare an equiment
about if the damned thing was saying something like 260 when it should
say 220.

There will have to be some really odd circumstances if this isn't
called pilot error. In fact, I'd appreciate someone offering a
reasonable theory that does not implicate the pilots.

And isn't it true that both would have had to operate from that airport
before they could carry passengers?

Awful error, and and even more awful punishment for having made it.
Ron Lee wrote:

As for your question about my judgment, thankfully, so far, it's been
good, and that's why I'm still alive. If I had to depend on "luck" to
keep me safe in an airplane, I wouldn't fly. However, accidents such as
this one demonstrate why careful consideration and good judgment are so
important in aviation.

Sorry, I'm standing by my thought that you can't criticize their
mistakes until you've been in that situation. Blame has no place in
something like this....but I'm coming at this as someone who analyzes
mistakes for a living.

Can't agree with you Emily. If the pilots took off on too short a
runway they screwed up royally and they alone are to blame.

Ron Lee

"Tony" wrote in message
ups.com...

If you pull up a sat image of the airport it appears the thresholds for
22 and 26 are along the same line of sight from the tower. It wouldn't
have been obvious the airplane was at the wrong runway from the tower..

Most of us who are instrument rated use the runway centerline as a
final verification the DG is aligned, and I'd sure declare an equiment
about if the damned thing was saying something like 260 when it should
say 220.

There will have to be some really odd circumstances if this isn't
called pilot error. In fact, I'd appreciate someone offering a
reasonable theory that does not implicate the pilots.

And isn't it true that both would have had to operate from that airport
before they could carry passengers?

Awful error, and and even more awful punishment for having made it.


Well, even if they received the wrong runway from ATC, they're the final
authority and it's their responsibility to know the airport and its runways'
lengths, but Emily is right when she says that we can't criticize until we
know what happened exactly. We should not blame anyone but we should know
what happened so we can learn from that. (I haven't heard a reasonable
theory yet either)

Here is LEX Airport diagram (http://avn.faa.gov/d-tpp/0608/00697AD.PDF) and
the runways aren't that close, so it's weird they took the wrong one.

Javier Omella.

Ron Lee wrote:
As for your question about my judgment, thankfully, so far, it's been
good, and that's why I'm still alive. If I had to depend on "luck" to
keep me safe in an airplane, I wouldn't fly. However, accidents such as
this one demonstrate why careful consideration and good judgment are so
important in aviation.
Sorry, I'm standing by my thought that you can't criticize their
mistakes until you've been in that situation. Blame has no place in
something like this....but I'm coming at this as someone who analyzes
mistakes for a living.

Can't agree with you Emily. If the pilots took off on too short a
runway they screwed up royally and they alone are to blame.

Ron Lee



Blaming doesn't keep it from happening again.

Newps wrote:


Emily wrote:



Have you ever been in a two person crew, on an early morning flight,
in the weather conditions at LEX?

Weather not a factor, it was VFR.

I heard it was raining....granted, I'm pretty much ignoring the news,
since they're wrong on most things anyway.

Can't agree with you Emily. If the pilots took off on too short a
runway they screwed up royally and they alone are to blame.

Ron Lee



Blaming doesn't keep it from happening again.

And what kept it from happening this time?

Ron Lee