CRJ crash at KLEX:

Ron Lee wrote:
Can't agree with you Emily. If the pilots took off on too short a
runway they screwed up royally and they alone are to blame.

Ron Lee



Blaming doesn't keep it from happening again.

And what kept it from happening this time?

Ron Lee

You know, I'm not even going to dignify this with another post after
this. Fine, blame two people, one of whom is dead. I'm not going to
join you. I'm glad that you've never made such a mistake, and I hope
you never do, but keep in mind that it does happen, and it COULD happen
to you.

Emily wrote:

I believe cause is the better word. Instead of blaming the crew for
choosing the wrong runway, we need to find out WHY they did. Without
the why, the same mistake can be repeated. When I get word that someone
at work screwed up, I don't "blame" them, I work through the situation
to find out what happened and how to keep it from happening again. The
key is learning what happened so it can't be repeated, not finding out
who's to blame.

Well put.
I hope pilots look for the cause.
Looking for blame? Leave that to the lawyers; I'm sure they've already
started.

In article ,
"Javier Omella" wrote:

Here is LEX Airport diagram (http://avn.faa.gov/d-tpp/0608/00697AD.PDF) and
the runways aren't that close, so it's weird they took the wrong one.

Quite the contrary, the approach ends of the two runways are very close
and served by the same taxiway.
Port Columbus International Airport/KCMH had a similar arrangement at
the junction of the approach ends of R28L/R23. Some airlines actually
used the first several hundred feet of R23 to taxi onto R28 instead of
taxiing all the way to the R28 thrreshhold via the taxiway.
Approximately 10-years ago, the airport dug up the concrete and
completely reconfigured the layout to avoid confusion.
There are other airport with similar arrangements. Look for the FAA to
implement a construction program to correct these situations as a result
of todays crash.
And there had been confusion, but no consequences as happened today in
LEX.

Before you start blaming the crew, look at how the plane would taxi from
the terminal building on taxiway alpha to the departure end of either 22 or
26.
http://avn.faa.gov/d-tpp/0608/00697AD.PDF

Looking at the diagram, can you imagine the confusing array of signage that
you'd have to negotiate to figure out taxiing from the terminal whether
you'd be at the departure end of 22 or 26? One sign that probably should
have been at the departure end of 26 and wasn't: "Caution, short runway, no
jets"

"Bush" wrote in message
...
6:10 PM the National Transportation Safety Board confirmed that
the Comair flight was assigned departure from runway 22, however
departed runway 26 (3500 ft.) since it was closer to the terminal.
Accelerate-stop for this A/C at this weight should be some 5356 feet.
Jees they'll let anyone fly them.

"It is that large chain of events, with no intervening variable, that
produces the accident"

Bush

Emily wrote:

You know, I'm not even going to dignify this with another post after
this. Fine, blame two people, one of whom is dead. I'm not going to
join you. I'm glad that you've never made such a mistake, and I hope
you never do, but keep in mind that it does happen, and it COULD happen
to you.

I agree with you. There is clearly human factors considerations that
investigators will certainly address. Duh, it's quite apparent that an
error was made, what will take time is to find out what factors
contributed to that error.

Keep in mind you're dealing crotchety monday-morning-quarterback
"experts" who can say they always do everything perfectly for the eight
times a year they fly their 152 rental around the pattern on a Sunday
afternoon. Unlike folks like yourself and other professional pilots,
they have no ideas of the realities that the job places on decision
making, such as schedules, fatigue, time of day, weather, airfield
familiarity, inop equipment, miscommunication, etc.

Brad

Emily wrote:

Sorry, I'm standing by my thought that you can't criticize
their mistakes until you've been in that situation.

So you'd never criticized Bush (or Clinton, depending on your tastes)
because you've never been POTUS??? Certain people are paid to do
certain jobs, and if they don't do them properly, they are open to
ciriticism. End of story.

In article ,
Emily wrote:

Sorry, I'm standing by my thought that you can't criticize their
mistakes until you've been in that situation. Blame has no place in
something like this....but I'm coming at this as someone who analyzes
mistakes for a living.

Well, I'm a pilot, so I've been in that situation. I've never used the
wrong runway.

Have you ever been in a two person crew, on an early morning flight, in
the weather conditions at LEX?

Are you saying that only those people can criticize or blame crew mistakes?

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

In article ,
Emily wrote:

Blaming doesn't keep it from happening again.

Reducing the risk of it happening again isn't the only objective.
Somtimes people need to take responsibility.

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

"Dice" wrote:

Before you start blaming the crew, look at how the plane would taxi from
the terminal building on taxiway alpha to the departure end of either 22
or 26.
http://avn.faa.gov/d-tpp/0608/00697AD.PDF

A simple heading check before throttle up would have caught the error. I
wonder if that is on the checklist.

Looking at the diagram, can you imagine the confusing array of signage
that you'd have to negotiate to figure out taxiing from the terminal
whether you'd be at the departure end of 22 or 26?

Yes, I can. It would probably prompt me to extra caution. Were these
pilots regulars at this airport, or newbies?

One sign that probably should have been at the departure end of 26 and
wasn't: "Caution, short runway, no jets"


It wouldn't be surprising to see this accident produce some such regulation.

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

Tony wrote:
If you pull up a sat image of the airport it appears the thresholds for
22 and 26 are along the same line of sight from the tower. It wouldn't
have been obvious the airplane was at the wrong runway from the tower..

I haven't looked yet, but probably the sat images are way out of date.
Didn't they mention in the news that they just extended that runway 26
by 600' on both ends?

Best, Kev