No more "Left Downwind"?

On 9/1/06 9:50 PM, in article
, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:

We attended a safety seminar on Tuesday during which the FAA presenter
(who was otherwise outstanding) went over a list of unapproved radio
calls. (Number one being, of course, the despised and now-specifically
prohibited "Any other traffic please advise...")

To our surprise, he claimed that the common phraseology "Iowa City
Traffic, N56993 entering left downwind for Runway 25, Iowa City" is
incorrect. In short, he stated that you should say "Iowa City
Traffic, N56993 entering downwind for Runway 25, Iowa City", omitting
the word "left".

In his opinion (and, apparently, the FAA's), saying "left downwind" is
redundant, since everyone should know that the pattern is left (or
right, if appropriate) hand traffic. In high traffic areas, the FAA
thinks that omitting this single word will open the over-crowded unicom
frequencies so that other pilots can squeeze a word in.

Mary and I (and several other pilots) kept quiet during the
presentation, but strongly disagree with him on this topic. IMHO,
saying "left downwind" is clear, concise, and -- most importantly --
clarifies which side of the airport you're on. To assume that everyone
knows whether the pattern is left (or right) is, in my experience,
naive.

What do you guys think?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"


I think pilots are the most freakin' anal SOBs on the planet.
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino

Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.wizardofdraws.com

More Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.cartoonclipart.com

"Jay Honeck" wrote:
In his opinion (and, apparently, the FAA's), saying "left downwind" is
redundant, since everyone should know that the pattern is left (or
right, if appropriate) hand traffic.

In my opinion, that's exactly the sort of thinking I would expect from the
FAA.

Wizard of Draws wrote:

I think pilots are the most freakin' anal SOBs on the planet.

And your point is?

--
Peter

On 9/1/06 10:21 PM, in article
, "Peter R."
wrote:

Wizard of Draws wrote:

I think pilots are the most freakin' anal SOBs on the planet.

And your point is?

They very often lose sight of the forest for the trees.
Is a _single word_ truly worth the bandwidth and time that will be used to
debate whether it's proper to use it?

The FAA obviously thinks it's worth time and effort, but they have the
excuse that they are a bureaucracy, and are abysmally anal by definition.
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino

Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.wizardofdraws.com

More Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.cartoonclipart.com

I think pilots are the most freakin' anal SOBs on the planet.

And your point is?

They very often lose sight of the forest for the trees.
Is a _single word_ truly worth the bandwidth and time that will be used to
debate whether it's proper to use it?

The FAA obviously thinks it's worth time and effort, but they have the
excuse that they are a bureaucracy, and are abysmally anal by definition.

True enough, Jeff -- but the FAA controls everything we do, for better
or worse. Debating this point wasn't MY idea -- it was theirs...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:
I think pilots are the most freakin' anal SOBs on the planet.
And your point is?
They very often lose sight of the forest for the trees.
Is a _single word_ truly worth the bandwidth and time that will be used to
debate whether it's proper to use it?

The FAA obviously thinks it's worth time and effort, but they have the
excuse that they are a bureaucracy, and are abysmally anal by definition.

True enough, Jeff -- but the FAA controls everything we do, for better
or worse.

I don't know..say what you want about them, I doubt they're going to
violate someone for using the word "left" in a radio transmission.

(Ok, so I had a startlingly good conversation with our PMI today, which
slightly rekindled my faith in the FAA....probably not deserved)

(Ok, so I had a startlingly good conversation with our PMI today, which slightly rekindled my faith in the FAA....probably not deserved)

Care to share?

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com...
We attended a safety seminar on Tuesday during which the FAA presenter
(who was otherwise outstanding) went over a list of unapproved radio
calls. (Number one being, of course, the despised and now-specifically
prohibited "Any other traffic please advise...")

To our surprise, he claimed that the common phraseology "Iowa City
Traffic, N56993 entering left downwind for Runway 25, Iowa City" is
incorrect. In short, he stated that you should say "Iowa City
Traffic, N56993 entering downwind for Runway 25, Iowa City", omitting
the word "left".

In his opinion (and, apparently, the FAA's), saying "left downwind" is
redundant, since everyone should know that the pattern is left (or
right, if appropriate) hand traffic. In high traffic areas, the FAA
thinks that omitting this single word will open the over-crowded unicom
frequencies so that other pilots can squeeze a word in.

Mary and I (and several other pilots) kept quiet during the
presentation, but strongly disagree with him on this topic. IMHO,
saying "left downwind" is clear, concise, and -- most importantly --
clarifies which side of the airport you're on. To assume that everyone
knows whether the pattern is left (or right) is, in my experience,
naive.

What do you guys think?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"


I've been left downwind when a Business Jet decided to be "right" downwind
for the same runway even though the airport is left traffic. I will continue
saying left or right as it may warrant. I also do not say "traffic please
advise" I hear it ALL the time though.

Jose wrote:
(Ok, so I had a startlingly good conversation with our PMI today,
which slightly rekindled my faith in the FAA....probably not deserved)

Care to share?

Jose
Oh, nothing piloting related...we had a SUP show up on the doorstep last
week and he's going to help us do everything we can to figure out where
it came from and what to do with it. I just wasn't expecting that kind
of support...I'm used to the FAA either blowing me off and jumping in
and taking over. I've been fairly impressed by this particular FSDO.

On 9/1/06 10:46 PM, in article
, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:

I think pilots are the most freakin' anal SOBs on the planet.

And your point is?

They very often lose sight of the forest for the trees.
Is a _single word_ truly worth the bandwidth and time that will be used to
debate whether it's proper to use it?

The FAA obviously thinks it's worth time and effort, but they have the
excuse that they are a bureaucracy, and are abysmally anal by definition.

True enough, Jeff -- but the FAA controls everything we do, for better
or worse. Debating this point wasn't MY idea -- it was theirs...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"


FWIW Jay, my response wasn't directed at you or anyone in particular. I
knew, as well as you did, that a nit like this is too tempting for _any_
pilot to remain silent. It's just that the juice ain't worth the squeeze.

I'll change my mind when I hear anyone getting busted by the FAA for making
a call like this.
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino

Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.wizardofdraws.com

More Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.cartoonclipart.com