If I die...

and the husband said he was comforted that she
died doing something she loved.

A quibble wit the subject line: It shouldn't be "If I die", but "=when=
I die".

Apropos of that, I'd like people to recall not that "at least he =died=
doing something he loved", rather "at least he =did= something he loved".

Actually, I'd rather hear "look, he's moving!".

And not have that followed by "shoot him again!"

Jose
--
You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
.. .
Shirl wrote in news:Xmnushal8y-
:

Jay Honeck wrote:
The difference between the two events was striking. In the former,
everyone (even the parents) said "As least they died doing something
they loved" -- and meant it. Our friends left no dependents, so their
fate was truly their own. Although death came to them too soon, it
seemed almost a noble way to go, compared to so many alternatives.

Before I was flying, we knew a couple who were both pilots. The woman
was killed in a crash, and the husband said he was comforted that she
died doing something she loved. They had no kids. At the time -- being a
young wife and mother -- I could not relate to that statement at all. It
sounded too matter-of-fact. Now, being older and a pilot myself, I
understand it.

I don't. I'd much rather die at the hands of a jealous husband..

Ditto, but on my 100th birthday, of course.

Shirl:
Before I was flying, we knew a couple who were both pilots. The woman
was killed in a crash, and the husband said he was comforted that she
died doing something she loved. They had no kids. At the time -- being a
young wife and mother -- I could not relate to that statement at all. It
sounded too matter-of-fact. Now, being older and a pilot myself, I
understand it.

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
I don't. I'd much rather die at the hands of a jealous husband..

;-) You guys are a riot...you and Jose.

"John Mazor" wrote in
news:%GV5j.5654$gi7.1190@trnddc04:


"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
.. .
Shirl wrote in news:Xmnushal8y-
:

Jay Honeck wrote:
The difference between the two events was striking. In the former,
everyone (even the parents) said "As least they died doing
something they loved" -- and meant it. Our friends left no
dependents, so their fate was truly their own. Although death came
to them too soon, it seemed almost a noble way to go, compared to
so many alternatives.

Before I was flying, we knew a couple who were both pilots. The
woman was killed in a crash, and the husband said he was comforted
that she died doing something she loved. They had no kids. At the
time -- being a young wife and mother -- I could not relate to that
statement at all. It sounded too matter-of-fact. Now, being older
and a pilot myself, I understand it.

I don't. I'd much rather die at the hands of a jealous husband..

Ditto, but on my 100th birthday, of course.


And more than one husband , if possible.


Bertie

Shirl wrote in
:

Shirl:
Before I was flying, we knew a couple who were both pilots. The
woman was killed in a crash, and the husband said he was comforted
that she died doing something she loved. They had no kids. At the
time -- being a young wife and mother -- I could not relate to that
statement at all. It sounded too matter-of-fact. Now, being older
and a pilot myself, I understand it.

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
I don't. I'd much rather die at the hands of a jealous husband..

;-) You guys are a riot...you and Jose.



Thenkew.


Bertie

Tina wrote:
And then, Mr Dudley, there were John Gillespie Magee, Jr's thoughts on
your profession. I doubt you've lost that joy and awe.

I am struck with the humor I envision merely from the thought of
beginning to recite "High Flight" during a pre-show brief of the
Thunderbirds or Blue Angels, or at a meeting at NAFEC discussing why the
#619 engine test bed F14 Tomcat was just lost as it spun into the bay.
I'm wondering just how long I would have lived had I taxied out to do a
low altitude display in one of our airplanes thinking to myself how
wonderful it was just to be allowed to experience the joys of flight.
I'm wondering if an airline pilot friend of mine who is flying today is
sitting up there in the cockpit enjoying the world going by, or thinking
about the approach he has to make in the next 30 minutes.

I once sat in on a meeting with about 10 combat veterans, all fighter
pilots, all aces, some several times over. The discussion was about
survival in the combat arena.
Probably the single most talked about factor in that meeting was the
mental attitude of new pilots going into combat for the first time.
The guys all agreed that most pilots going through the training program
bring into the program with them, a feeling of high emotion concerning
flying and wanting to fly. Almost to an individual, these newbies are
flushed with the "excitement" and "wonder" of being one of the "lucky
ones" accepted to flight training after fierce competition to get there.

All the veterans agreed that probably the first thing that had to be
accomplished with these newbies was to purge all that emotional feeling
out of their systems; the sooner the better.

There was and still is a critical reason for this.

When you choose to fly airplanes for a living or fly airplanes in any
high risk or extended exposure professional environment, the scenario
involving the "emotional approach" to flying is best left on the ground
if you intend living for any length of time in this environment.
The long and short of it is that in the professional cockpit, there's
little room for the "High Flight" types. The professional pilot has much
more important things to be concerned with.
As for the fighter pilots; it was the general consensus of the people in
that meeting that the newbies flying into combat who were still enamored
with their "wonder of it all" feelings about actually being there and
involved, didn't last very long as a group. In short, they were the ones
who got themselves killed early on after deployment into operational
squadrons.
All this I'm saying here doesn't mean that pilots like myself are cold
and hard and that we don't feel things as other people do. What it means
is that we might look at flying a bit differently than the average
pleasure pilot.
I happen to have a copy of High Flight hanging on the wall here in the
den. I actually know people who knew the Magees in South Africa. The
poem is a beautiful sentiment, but for pilots like myself, it's a
private sentiment. I don't take things like this to work.
During my years in flying, I've buried 32 of my friends and associates.
It's a tough business where you are allowed emotion, but not at the office!
I can give you a perfect example of what I've been talking about.
I had a friend when I was younger, an ANG fighter pilot. He was killed
flying an F86 Sabre when his engine threw a turbine bucket and exploded.
He stayed with it too long, ejected low and out of the seat envelope and
the chute couldn't deploy. The papers carried the oft used story in
such situations about Jim staying with the airplane to avoid populated
areas thus costing him his life. Even the ANG accident inquiry stated
this as a probable cause of his death.
Understanding that I loved this man, you can imagine how much this
ending to his life meant to me.
Many years later, acting as a flight safety advisor giving a safety
lecture on low altitude emergency bailout, the issue of my friend's
ejection came up in the Q&A.
You can only imagine how difficult it was for me, now having thousands
of hours of experience to stand there and contradict the accident report.
The truth involved with low altitude bailout in high performance jets is
that the pilot involved seldom has the time or even the inclination to
either spot on the ground or attempt to avoid that "school house full of
innocent children" down there. The pilot usually has his hands full
controlling a stricken aircraft while trying to eject in time to save
his own life. The simple fact is that unless the emergency is stable and
the altitude situation dictates that the aircraft can be pointed to a
large obviously open area, the pilot will have little control over
exactly where the aircraft impacts the ground.

In covering these aspects of low altitude ejection, I had to use the
example of my closest friend as a negative example. I had to actually
detract from what had been written about him to present a more
reasonable probable cause.
Knowing Jim, he would have wanted it this way, and this is but one
example of the difference between flying for fun and flying professionally.






--
Dudley Henriques

On an IFR flight plan over PA last summer, maybe about 7000 feet, ATC
gave us permission to deviate. There were canyons of clouds to play
with along our route. My husband uses an airplane the way most use a
car, as a tool, but the pleasure of the moment was there anyhow.

Come on Dudley, you've been there. That's blood, not 100 octane low
lead, in your veins. Even professionals smile. I knew a Pole a long
time ago who flew bombers during WWII from England to Germany, and he
talked about flying along the top surface of cirrus clouds, right at
eye level. Fully alert (there were people around who wanted to kill
him), fully involved, and alive enough to remember the moment..




On Dec 6, 12:10 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Tina wrote:
And then, Mr Dudley, there were John Gillespie Magee, Jr's thoughts on
your profession. I doubt you've lost that joy and awe.

I am struck with the humor I envision merely from the thought of
beginning to recite "High Flight" during a pre-show brief of the
Thunderbirds or Blue Angels, or at a meeting at NAFEC discussing why the
#619 engine test bed F14 Tomcat was just lost as it spun into the bay.
I'm wondering just how long I would have lived had I taxied out to do a
low altitude display in one of our airplanes thinking to myself how
wonderful it was just to be allowed to experience the joys of flight.
I'm wondering if an airline pilot friend of mine who is flying today is
sitting up there in the cockpit enjoying the world going by, or thinking
about the approach he has to make in the next 30 minutes.

I once sat in on a meeting with about 10 combat veterans, all fighter
pilots, all aces, some several times over. The discussion was about
survival in the combat arena.
Probably the single most talked about factor in that meeting was the
mental attitude of new pilots going into combat for the first time.
The guys all agreed that most pilots going through the training program
bring into the program with them, a feeling of high emotion concerning
flying and wanting to fly. Almost to an individual, these newbies are
flushed with the "excitement" and "wonder" of being one of the "lucky
ones" accepted to flight training after fierce competition to get there.

All the veterans agreed that probably the first thing that had to be
accomplished with these newbies was to purge all that emotional feeling
out of their systems; the sooner the better.

There was and still is a critical reason for this.

When you choose to fly airplanes for a living or fly airplanes in any
high risk or extended exposure professional environment, the scenario
involving the "emotional approach" to flying is best left on the ground
if you intend living for any length of time in this environment.
The long and short of it is that in the professional cockpit, there's
little room for the "High Flight" types. The professional pilot has much
more important things to be concerned with.
As for the fighter pilots; it was the general consensus of the people in
that meeting that the newbies flying into combat who were still enamored
with their "wonder of it all" feelings about actually being there and
involved, didn't last very long as a group. In short, they were the ones
who got themselves killed early on after deployment into operational
squadrons.
All this I'm saying here doesn't mean that pilots like myself are cold
and hard and that we don't feel things as other people do. What it means
is that we might look at flying a bit differently than the average
pleasure pilot.
I happen to have a copy of High Flight hanging on the wall here in the
den. I actually know people who knew the Magees in South Africa. The
poem is a beautiful sentiment, but for pilots like myself, it's a
private sentiment. I don't take things like this to work.
During my years in flying, I've buried 32 of my friends and associates.
It's a tough business where you are allowed emotion, but not at the office!
I can give you a perfect example of what I've been talking about.
I had a friend when I was younger, an ANG fighter pilot. He was killed
flying an F86 Sabre when his engine threw a turbine bucket and exploded.
He stayed with it too long, ejected low and out of the seat envelope and
the chute couldn't deploy. The papers carried the oft used story in
such situations about Jim staying with the airplane to avoid populated
areas thus costing him his life. Even the ANG accident inquiry stated
this as a probable cause of his death.
Understanding that I loved this man, you can imagine how much this
ending to his life meant to me.
Many years later, acting as a flight safety advisor giving a safety
lecture on low altitude emergency bailout, the issue of my friend's
ejection came up in the Q&A.
You can only imagine how difficult it was for me, now having thousands
of hours of experience to stand there and contradict the accident report.
The truth involved with low altitude bailout in high performance jets is
that the pilot involved seldom has the time or even the inclination to
either spot on the ground or attempt to avoid that "school house full of
innocent children" down there. The pilot usually has his hands full
controlling a stricken aircraft while trying to eject in time to save
his own life. The simple fact is that unless the emergency is stable and
the altitude situation dictates that the aircraft can be pointed to a
large obviously open area, the pilot will have little control over
exactly where the aircraft impacts the ground.

In covering these aspects of low altitude ejection, I had to use the
example of my closest friend as a negative example. I had to actually
detract from what had been written about him to present a more
reasonable probable cause.
Knowing Jim, he would have wanted it this way, and this is but one
example of the difference between flying for fun and flying professionally.

--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Tina wrote:
And then, Mr Dudley, there were John Gillespie Magee, Jr's thoughts
on your profession. I doubt you've lost that joy and awe.

I am struck with the humor I envision merely from the thought of
beginning to recite "High Flight"

Mostly ~I just don't want them to think I ****ed up


Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Tina wrote:
And then, Mr Dudley, there were John Gillespie Magee, Jr's thoughts
on your profession. I doubt you've lost that joy and awe.
I am struck with the humor I envision merely from the thought of
beginning to recite "High Flight"

Mostly ~I just don't want them to think I ****ed up


Bertie

Fear of failure in front of the peer group while keeping one's
proverbial butt in one piece at the same time.....good multi-tasking and
a highly motivating factor in the survival manual :-))

--
Dudley Henriques

Tina wrote:
On an IFR flight plan over PA last summer, maybe about 7000 feet, ATC
gave us permission to deviate. There were canyons of clouds to play
with along our route. My husband uses an airplane the way most use a
car, as a tool, but the pleasure of the moment was there anyhow.

Come on Dudley, you've been there. That's blood, not 100 octane low
lead, in your veins. Even professionals smile. I knew a Pole a long
time ago who flew bombers during WWII from England to Germany, and he
talked about flying along the top surface of cirrus clouds, right at
eye level. Fully alert (there were people around who wanted to kill
him), fully involved, and alive enough to remember the moment..




On Dec 6, 12:10 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Tina wrote:
And then, Mr Dudley, there were John Gillespie Magee, Jr's thoughts on
your profession. I doubt you've lost that joy and awe.
I am struck with the humor I envision merely from the thought of
beginning to recite "High Flight" during a pre-show brief of the
Thunderbirds or Blue Angels, or at a meeting at NAFEC discussing why the
#619 engine test bed F14 Tomcat was just lost as it spun into the bay.
I'm wondering just how long I would have lived had I taxied out to do a
low altitude display in one of our airplanes thinking to myself how
wonderful it was just to be allowed to experience the joys of flight.
I'm wondering if an airline pilot friend of mine who is flying today is
sitting up there in the cockpit enjoying the world going by, or thinking
about the approach he has to make in the next 30 minutes.

I once sat in on a meeting with about 10 combat veterans, all fighter
pilots, all aces, some several times over. The discussion was about
survival in the combat arena.
Probably the single most talked about factor in that meeting was the
mental attitude of new pilots going into combat for the first time.
The guys all agreed that most pilots going through the training program
bring into the program with them, a feeling of high emotion concerning
flying and wanting to fly. Almost to an individual, these newbies are
flushed with the "excitement" and "wonder" of being one of the "lucky
ones" accepted to flight training after fierce competition to get there.

All the veterans agreed that probably the first thing that had to be
accomplished with these newbies was to purge all that emotional feeling
out of their systems; the sooner the better.

There was and still is a critical reason for this.

When you choose to fly airplanes for a living or fly airplanes in any
high risk or extended exposure professional environment, the scenario
involving the "emotional approach" to flying is best left on the ground
if you intend living for any length of time in this environment.
The long and short of it is that in the professional cockpit, there's
little room for the "High Flight" types. The professional pilot has much
more important things to be concerned with.
As for the fighter pilots; it was the general consensus of the people in
that meeting that the newbies flying into combat who were still enamored
with their "wonder of it all" feelings about actually being there and
involved, didn't last very long as a group. In short, they were the ones
who got themselves killed early on after deployment into operational
squadrons.
All this I'm saying here doesn't mean that pilots like myself are cold
and hard and that we don't feel things as other people do. What it means
is that we might look at flying a bit differently than the average
pleasure pilot.
I happen to have a copy of High Flight hanging on the wall here in the
den. I actually know people who knew the Magees in South Africa. The
poem is a beautiful sentiment, but for pilots like myself, it's a
private sentiment. I don't take things like this to work.
During my years in flying, I've buried 32 of my friends and associates.
It's a tough business where you are allowed emotion, but not at the office!
I can give you a perfect example of what I've been talking about.
I had a friend when I was younger, an ANG fighter pilot. He was killed
flying an F86 Sabre when his engine threw a turbine bucket and exploded.
He stayed with it too long, ejected low and out of the seat envelope and
the chute couldn't deploy. The papers carried the oft used story in
such situations about Jim staying with the airplane to avoid populated
areas thus costing him his life. Even the ANG accident inquiry stated
this as a probable cause of his death.
Understanding that I loved this man, you can imagine how much this
ending to his life meant to me.
Many years later, acting as a flight safety advisor giving a safety
lecture on low altitude emergency bailout, the issue of my friend's
ejection came up in the Q&A.
You can only imagine how difficult it was for me, now having thousands
of hours of experience to stand there and contradict the accident report.
The truth involved with low altitude bailout in high performance jets is
that the pilot involved seldom has the time or even the inclination to
either spot on the ground or attempt to avoid that "school house full of
innocent children" down there. The pilot usually has his hands full
controlling a stricken aircraft while trying to eject in time to save
his own life. The simple fact is that unless the emergency is stable and
the altitude situation dictates that the aircraft can be pointed to a
large obviously open area, the pilot will have little control over
exactly where the aircraft impacts the ground.

In covering these aspects of low altitude ejection, I had to use the
example of my closest friend as a negative example. I had to actually
detract from what had been written about him to present a more
reasonable probable cause.
Knowing Jim, he would have wanted it this way, and this is but one
example of the difference between flying for fun and flying professionally.

--
Dudley Henriques

Be careful not to misread what I'm saying. Professional pilots are
normal people with normal feelings just like everyone else. We just
leave all this on the ground when working. Notice my use of the term
"working" instead of "flying". Highly indicative of what I've been
saying in this thread.

Hey.......I cried when our CAT died for God's sake!!! :-)

--
Dudley Henriques