'Notamed closed' question

OK, Here is a question for some of you FAR legal experts out there. I can't
seem to find anything definitive on it. If an uncontrolled airport is open to
those based there but notamed 'closed to transients' do the runways have to be
"X"ed?
If not what about a passer-by who didn't intend it to be part of his flight
plan but decides to land, say for a drink of water etc., or just to rest up?
Does he have to radio an FSS to check if everything looks good on a fly by?
What if he has no radio? Has a violation been committed?

Jim

"JFLEISC" wrote in message ...
OK, Here is a question for some of you FAR legal experts out there. I can't
seem to find anything definitive on it. If an uncontrolled airport is open to
those based there but notamed 'closed to transients' do the runways have to be
"X"ed?

No of course not.

If not what about a passer-by who didn't intend it to be part of his flight
plan but decides to land, say for a drink of water etc., or just to rest up?
Does he have to radio an FSS to check if everything looks good on a fly by?
What if he has no radio? Has a violation been committed?

By and large it's not the FAA who knows or cares if airports are closed to
certain operations. It's the person who owns/runs the airport that does.
It's not a FAR violation (unless there was some safety issue like there
were people working on the runway, etc...) to land at a closed airport.

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message om...
Does he have to radio an FSS to check if everything looks good on a fly by?
What if he has no radio? Has a violation been committed?

By and large it's not the FAA who knows or cares if airports are closed to
certain operations. It's the person who owns/runs the airport that does.
It's not a FAR violation (unless there was some safety issue like there
were people working on the runway, etc...) to land at a closed airport.

Well, technically it is a violation. If the FAA choses to be picky
about it, they can ding you for not having obtained all of the
information for your flight (which includes NOTAMs).

I know a pilot that landed at an airport that was temporarily
NOTAMed closed. He had to take a ride with an inspector (709???).

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

"John Galban" wrote in message om...

Well, technically it is a violation. If the FAA choses to be picky
about it, they can ding you for not having obtained all of the
information for your flight (which includes NOTAMs).

Not all closures are NOTAM'd.
Just because a field is NOTAM'd or otherwise marked as closed makes
it illegal by the FAR's to land there.

I know a pilot that landed at an airport that was temporarily
NOTAMed closed. He had to take a ride with an inspector (709???).

What was the nature of the closure? What was the issue? Unless the landing
was unsafe or there was some specific FAA activity (TFR), it's not against the
FARs to land at closed airports. It's certainly not against the FARs to invoke
the ire of airport operators by breaking their self-imposed rules.

---

My favorite enforcement actions along these lines was the guy about a decade ago
who got the NOTAM that CGS was closed until 4PM. At 4:01 the guy heads out
and departs narrowly missing hitting the guy picking up the big X off the end of the
runway.

The moral is: No matter what the NOTAM says, the airport ain't open until the guy
removing the X gets off the runway.

Ron Natalie wrote:
My favorite enforcement actions along these lines was the guy about a decade ago
who got the NOTAM that CGS was closed until 4PM. At 4:01 the guy heads out
and departs narrowly missing hitting the guy picking up the big X off the end of the
runway.
The moral is: No matter what the NOTAM says, the airport ain't open until the guy
removing the X gets off the runway.

That wasn't quite the correct story... I was practically at CGS
constantantly during that time (although, I wasn't there that day). The
time period was approximately when they were building the raised Metro
tracks at the departure end of 33. The person who took off supposedly
made the Metro construction workers "dive out of the way". I don't think
it had anything to do with the "X". If I remember right, there was
testimony to that effect during the enforcement hearing.

In addition, since CGS has a rule against departures after 10PM, and
before 7AM, there were always the occasional story of someone sneaking
out at 10:05, or 6:55. That's a local rule, made to smooth over the
relationship with the surrounding communities, and (of course) doesn't
involve any "X" on the runways. I don't think there are any enforcement
actions taken against those people.

-- Jay
__!__
Jay and Teresa Masino ___(_)___
http://www2.ari.net/jmasino/ ! ! !

Checkout http://www.oc-adolfos.com/
for the best Italian food in Ocean City, MD and...
Checkout http://www.brolow.com/ for authentic Blues music on Delmarva

You can no longer (and haven't been able to in a long time) surrender your
pilot certificate without making a written declaration to that effect.

However, if some bonehead inspector takes it, you're kind of screwed anyhow


All they have to take nowadays is your drivers license... or "government issued
photo ID".

Jose

(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

"Teacherjh" wrote in message
...
All they have to take nowadays is your drivers license... or "government
issued
photo ID".

By what authority would they do that? Seems to me, the bogus scenario of
the inspector taking your certficate (which is easily replaced anyway) is
much more likely.

Open letter to those who don't know how to handle a fed bozo:
Look, your mother taught you not to talk to strangers or she should have,
didn't she? Wassa matter, you too dense to remember? When some bozo
flashes his crappy ID, you ignore it and him... You don't answer... You
don't maintain eye contact. You don't stop and talk to him absolutely not
one word to indicate he even exists... If he has played a game by
pretending to be another pilot and strikes up a conversation about your
plane and then suddenly flashes an ID, simply shut your mouth and walk away
at that point... Not one more word directed to him...

You keep on doing whatever it is you are doing in my case drinking coffee
usually, keep walking, keep tieing the plane down, keep loading/unloading
your luggage, etc... No matter what he says, ignore him... You do NOT
answer, not even with a yes or no when he says, "Did you just land in this
airplane?"... You look through him as though he is invisible... He has NO
police powers - none / nada / zippo... He cannot arrest you, he cannot
"take" your airmans certificate or your drivers license, he cannot detain
you, he cannot MAKE you do anything... He simply cannot touch you...He is
just another person in a public area and he has no authority to interfere
with your movements... The only thing he can do is send you a registered
letter detailing the documents he needs to examine and offering to set a
mutually agreeable time and place... Your atttorney knows how to handle
that...

If he were some street bum who wandered in wearing three layers of old
clothes, with a bottle of Mad Dog 20/20 sticking out of his pocket, would
you hand him your certificate? Well, when some bozo flashes an id and
claims to be the right hand of ghod, just mentally picture that id as being
the bottle of Mad Dog 20/20 and you will know how to handle him......

Denny

"Dennis O'Connor" wrote in message ...
He simply cannot touch you...He is
just another person in a public area and he has no authority to interfere
with your movements... The only thing he can do is send you a registered
letter detailing the documents he needs to examine and offering to set a
mutually agreeable time and place... Your atttorney knows how to handle
that...

According to the regs, you are required to present your certificate
when asked by an FAA rep or law enforcement officer. They do have the
authority to ask for them. You are correct that the FAA guy does not
have the authority to arrest or impede your movements, but if you
don't comply, you've just bought yourself a violation. That's
probably what the registered letter will detail. In the case of
documents that you are not required to carry (like logbooks) the FAA
can send you a letter to arrange for inspection.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

Long, long ago in a society far, far away, I would have agreed with you
John... In those days I respected the inspectors of the FAA, FCC, DEA,
etc... The world has changed... The courts have found over and over that the
existence of self serving rules does not negate the responsibility of
government employees to observe due process and constitutional
protections... Sure, they will run over you if you let them - but that is
the key, just say NO... Police will demand that you let them in your house,
but cannot step foot inside if you simply say no... Yes, they can get a
search warrant - and that is a good reminder for them to have to go hat in
hand and beg for permission...

I will not show/surrender my papers to some bozo on the ramp... For all I
know he could be an escaped mental patient who stole someone's ID... He
could be a terrorist with forged documents desperate to get his hands on an
airplane..Even the courts do their business through the mail. If it is good
enough for all levels of the courts, up to the U.S. Supreme Court, then it
is good enough for the FAA... They are just bureaucrats - no more, no
less... Send me an official letter and I will respond - otherwise, keep
your distance...

Denny

"John Galban" wrote in message According to the
regs, you are required to present your certificate
when asked by an FAA rep