If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#21
|
|||
|
|||
Of course I have nothing to back this up except conversations at the O'Club.
Probably a more trustworty source of info than any official pronouncements out of Washington. vince norris |
#22
|
|||
|
|||
Here are the figures for a PFT:
Run 3 miles: 18 minutes is a perfect 100 points. Every 10 seconds more is 1 point less. So if you run 23 minutes, you scored a 70 of 100. Pullups: 5 points each, 20 is perfect for 100 points. And these are dead-hang pullups, arms fully extended each rep and no body language. Crunches: 1 point each, 100 is perfect. Add em up to 300. 220 or is it 225 is a "First Class" I would imagine officers are expected to be much much higher than this. Age comes into play at 27, the scores are a little more lenient. But when I was in A-school in Pensacola, I never saw an officer that couldnt outrun jackrabbits or do tons of effort-less pullups. I sure as hell have never seen a pilot less than herculean. I forget the time frame but I believe their basic was 3 months just like enlisted but the TBS was 8-9 months as opposed to our MCT (combat training for non-infantry) was 3 weeks. So in total, your minimum basic training will be almost a year. And that's before you go to your A-school to learn the job you'll do. Dont know the numbers for Navy but I believe them to be much, much shorter. So do you want to spend a year learning how to drill, land navigation, water purification, squad tactics and fill out paperwork? Or would you rather just get it over with and start working? Also, you'll have to talk to an officer to get the full story, but I do believe USMC officers have 2 jobs at all times. One is your main job (like pilot) and other is something green side. Again, just something to ask someone else. I believe it is a big difference between MC officer and the others as far as that goes. And as far as quality of life, oh I'd have to vote Navy or MC 10x over. Just look at the location of the bases. That should tell you enough. It depends on what you're looking for though. As far as selection of jets, bases, assignments - Navy. I only know enlisted but as far as rate of promotion, Navy once more. As any active duty or prior military would tell you, dont listen to these recruiters, advertisements, pamphlets, magazine articles, whatever. Find out the truth from those within. It's a huge committment and they are very good at making you see what they want you to see. Gotta weigh in the total picture. Wish I could tell you more but I only know what little I know. "R" wrote in message m... "Ogden Johnson III" wrote in message ... wrote: That if you're not fit enough to be a Marine right now, you're probably not fit enough to go Navy, either. If you want to go aviation, the better shape you're in the better. [And even if you don't get aviation, the Navy doesn't need out-of-shape ground {ship?} officers any more than the Marine Corps does.] Is that really the case? I'm easily fit enough for the Naval PRTs, but I hear that the Marines are much harder. I heard they do 15-mile "joy runs" and that kind of thing... probably couldn't do that. Not until you're well out in gruntland. I'm a little out of date on the PRT/PFT, and they're doing crunches instead of sit-up nowadays, but IIRC [and remember, I never took this particular form PRT/PFT until I was in my late 20s] a 3-mile run in under 20 minutes, 80-100 sit-ups, and a dozen/dozen-and-a-half pull-ups would have done you good in my day. [They were not "kipless" pull-ups. Kipping was rampant in my day. ;-] What killed me every other day in boot camp was that damned "twice or three times around the parade deck" at oh-dark-hundred, 5 minutes after reveille. ;- [The rifle exercises on alternate days were a piece of cake.] My reason for asking is I need to check the Marine or Navy box on the NROTC application, and if I feel like I want to be a Marine, a few other important college options would open up for me. That's a first IME; that going Marine would offer *more* options, important ones at that. In my days, the Navy always seemed to get the better end of the stick. ;- Well, the Marines have that PLC program, which makes life easier if your school doesn't have NROTC. Granted, my firts two choices due, but there's a chance I don't get in there. *But*, PLC does, AIUI, have an aviation guarantee, if you're physically/mentally qualified and accepted. [Guaranteed that you'll be ordered to flight training after TBS. After that, it's in your hands whether or not you get wings.] -- OJ III [Email sent to Yahoo addy is burned before reading. Lower and crunch the sig and you'll net me at comcast] From a recent conversation with my-son-in-law who is stationed at TBS (The Basic School) at Quantico I believe the goal is every Officer Canidate has to run all distances at a rete of 8 minutes a mile or less. The PFT run is 3 miles. I believe the the goal is to score 225 points + out of a possiable 300 points. The three mile run in 18 minutes is 100 points, and 28 minutes (the maximum) 40 points. Pull-ups are 5 points each, with 4 being minimum. Crunches I think are one point each with 40 minimum. (I am fairly confident of these figures). But the minimum will not let you graduate from TBS. IIRC I believe he said the longest timed run was 7 miles, and it was in PT gear. However they do, forced marches with uniform, weapon, and equipment, of longer distances. And they have the infamous "Hill Trail". I believe he also said that group runs (either in PT gear or uniform) were at a slower pace, due to the need to keep formation. Red |
#23
|
|||
|
|||
"Mike M." wrote:
Here are the figures for a PFT: [Skipped] I forget the time frame but I believe their basic was 3 months just like enlisted but the TBS was 8-9 months as opposed to our MCT (combat training for non-infantry) was 3 weeks. So in total, your minimum basic training will be almost a year. And that's before you go to your A-school to learn the job you'll do. Dont know the numbers for Navy but I believe them to be much, much shorter. So do you want to spend a year learning how to drill, land navigation, water purification, squad tactics and fill out paperwork? Or would you rather just get it over with and start working? Enlisted training has varied over the past 50+ years in durations, if not concepts - shorter during VN, longer before and after. Now it is, sort of, back to pre-VN structure. 12-week training curriculum + a "Zero week" of 3-7 days depending on time of year/training load at the MCRDs for screening, shots, etc. Followed by a four-week "infantry" training course for Marines of all MOSs [that "Every Marine is a rifleman" thing - in the late-50s/early-60s it was called ITR] before going on boot leave and then on to their "A" school MOS training. [The 03s {grunts} now have an "A" school of their own, the School of Infantry. In my day, their post-ITR training was at the tender mercies of their Company Gunny, Platoon Sgt, and Squad and Fire-Team leaders.] Officers training varies by source of accession. For the Academies it's the minimum, I believe one "Bulldog" summer for Juniors who have indicated a desire for the Marine option. [Their boot camp was plebe year.] N/ROTC Marine options and PLCs have two 6-week summer periods, usually after the sophomore and junior year, of OCS-type training. OCS, of course, does the three months/12-weeks straight. TBS was longer, that 9 months you mentioned, pre-VN. It is now a six-month course - as before, for all newly commissioned Marine 2ndLts. [There's a corresponding WO Basic course for all newly selected/promoted WOs.] Also, you'll have to talk to an officer to get the full story, but I do believe USMC officers have 2 jobs at all times. One is your main job (like pilot) and other is something green side. Again, just something to ask someone else. I believe it is a big difference between MC officer and the others as far as that goes. All squadron pilots will have another, ground-side, duty. From CO, XO, OpsO, down to TrngO, AvionicsO, and FltLineO. [The key thing is, multi-piloted aircraft have more pilots, and therefore all those SLJO {HumRelO, SqdnHistoryO, etc.} assignments that are in addition to their primary ground duty are split among more bodies, 30 or so in a helo squadron compared to the 16 we had in VMA-231. ;-] There are a few specialist WOs/LDOs around for technical expertise. Few, if any, pilots in the USMC have flying as their sole duty - I know I never met/heard of any. And I have no reason for thinking the Navy operates any differently on that score. Or the Army or Air Force, for that matter. -- OJ III [Email sent to Yahoo addy is burned before reading. Lower and crunch the sig and you'll net me at comcast] |
#24
|
|||
|
|||
"dano" wrote in message
In article , vincent p. norris wrote: For a time, when I was in the marines, 50 years ago, I flew airplanes that had olive-drab paint under the blue, visible where the blue had worn off. I took it for granted that the army air corps had given them to the marines after they had worn them out. Aren't the Marine AH-1 helicopters handed down from the Army? Only in general design. The Sea Cobras were new built for the Marines (and rebuilt and rebuilt again). Compared to the Army Cobras, there are many differneces including such basic things as the number of engines (Marine Cobras have two, Army Cobras had one). And when the Air Force tried to drop all the A-10s during GW1, didn't the Marines volunteer to take them? Not to the best of my knowledge. Many rumors fly about this, though, and it's nearly impossible to sort out the facts since nothing ever got past the back room discussion stage. -- Tom Schoene Replace "invalid" with "net" to e-mail "If brave men and women never died, there would be nothing special about bravery." -- Andy Rooney (attributed) |
#25
|
|||
|
|||
And when the Air Force tried to drop all the A-10s during GW1, didn't
the Marines volunteer to take them? Not to the best of my knowledge. Many rumors fly about this, though, and it's nearly impossible to sort out the facts since nothing ever got past the back room discussion stage. That is like when the C-117 was going to the bone yard, the Marine Corps was going to replace them with the C-7, possibly a turbine version. Somehow they must have shrunk in the rain, because they looked a lot like a C-12 to me. Leanne |
#26
|
|||
|
|||
"Thomas Schoene" wrote:
:"dano" wrote in message : : And when the Air Force tried to drop all the A-10s during GW1, didn't : the Marines volunteer to take them? : :Not to the best of my knowledge. Many rumors fly about this, though, and :it's nearly impossible to sort out the facts since nothing ever got past the :back room discussion stage. My understanding was that the Air Force wanted to free up the funding in the A-10 program for more fast movers, so they offered them to the ARMY, saying they would allow an exception to the prohibition on armed fixed wing assets in the Army. The Army figured out it could fund either the A-10 acquisition or the AH-64, and they wanted the Apache more. -- "Millions for defense, but not one cent for tribute." -- Charles Pinckney |
#27
|
|||
|
|||
dano wrote in news:dano45-E8A807.18002228102003
@lumberjack.rand.org: In article , vincent p. norris wrote: The Marines are getting theirs first now? When did that happen? Astonishing! As O.J. said a day or two ago, the marines always seem to get the short end of the stick. For a time, when I was in the marines, 50 years ago, I flew airplanes that had olive-drab paint under the blue, visible where the blue had worn off. I took it for granted that the army air corps had given them to the marines after they had worn them out. Aren't the Marine AH-1 helicopters handed down from the Army? Nope, all the current AH-1Ws were new buys, sent straight to USMC. I teach the maintainers how to fix them. Dave in San Diego USN Ret -- - "For once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward; For there you have been, and there you long to return." Leonardo da Vinci |
#28
|
|||
|
|||
"dano" wrote in message ... In article , vincent p. norris wrote: The Marines are getting theirs first now? When did that happen? Astonishing! As O.J. said a day or two ago, the marines always seem to get the short end of the stick. For a time, when I was in the marines, 50 years ago, I flew airplanes that had olive-drab paint under the blue, visible where the blue had worn off. I took it for granted that the army air corps had given them to the marines after they had worn them out. Aren't the Marine AH-1 helicopters handed down from the Army? No, not even the same number of engines. |
#29
|
|||
|
|||
OJ- I know I never
met/heard of any. And I have no reason for thinking the Navy operates any differently on that score. Or the Army or Air Force, for that matter. BRBR When on USAF exchange, many of the JOs had no other job than to fly. P. C. Chisholm CDR, USN(ret.) Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer |
#30
|
|||
|
|||
Also, you'll have to talk to an officer to get the full story, but I do
believe USMC officers have 2 jobs at all times. ..... Few, if any, pilots in the USMC have flying as their sole duty When I got my wings in 1951 and joined a squadron at Cherry Point, I was promptly made the squadron's Navigation Officer and Intelligence Officer. I didn't mind; it gave me something to do when not flying, and I learned a lot. I can't say for certain that every other pilot in the squadron had collateral duties, but I think it was the case. vince norris |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Swift Boat Veterans For Truth: Are They Going To Sink John Kerry? | BUFDRVR | Military Aviation | 151 | September 12th 04 09:59 PM |
Lot of noise being made about Purple Hearts | Jack | Military Aviation | 154 | September 8th 04 07:24 PM |
FA: Navy & Marine Planes In Korea War Book - $3 - Ends Tomorrow | Disgo | Aviation Marketplace | 0 | February 22nd 04 04:58 PM |
Marine Corps jet crashes in California, killing pilot | Matt | Naval Aviation | 0 | July 23rd 03 09:58 PM |
FS Books USAF, Navy, Marine pilots and planes | Ken Insch | Military Aviation | 0 | July 20th 03 02:36 AM |