Cessna sued for skydiving accident.

The parents of Bryan Jones, a 34 year old Microsoft engineer who was
one of nine skydivers killed in the crash of a Cessna Caravan, are
suing Cessna. The Caravan was returning from Star, Idaho, to Shelton,
Washington. The parents are alleging that the Cessna Caravan was
defective and should not have been flying in icy weather. The airplane
is not certified for flight into known ice, although the plane in
question did have boots.

So, Cessna is being blamed because a pilot may have operated the plane
in direct contradiction to the aircraft flight manual and warnings in
Cessna's operating instructions.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

C J Campbell wrote:
The parents of Bryan Jones, a 34 year old Microsoft engineer who was one
of nine skydivers killed in the crash of a Cessna Caravan, are suing
Cessna. The Caravan was returning from Star, Idaho, to Shelton,
Washington. The parents are alleging that the Cessna Caravan was
defective and should not have been flying in icy weather. The airplane
is not certified for flight into known ice, although the plane in
question did have boots.

So, Cessna is being blamed because a pilot may have operated the plane
in direct contradiction to the aircraft flight manual and warnings in
Cessna's operating instructions.

If this is true, you are viewing what has become one of the prime
reasons associated with the virtual end of General Aviation as at least
I knew it for the first 25 years I was involved in aviation.
It's the trial lawyers. They will go after anything and everything with
deep pockets involved in an accident. They operate in conditions like
these on the premise that REGARDLESS of the appropriate and
inappropriate actions of a pilot, if one screw was out of place on the
aircraft itself, the manufacturer can be litigated for financial gain.
In many cases, it is my understanding that manufacturers simply "settle"
the suits rather than defend them based upon specific lawyers
reputations for their ability to sway juries.
It's nothing but sheer extortion in the majority of the cases.

A truly unfortunate aside to this "practice" is that the phony
litigations are so frequent and so costly, there is a very good chance
that the legitimate cases where there actually is just cause for a
lawsuit are often looked at in the same jaundiced eye by the public as
the phony cases and true justice can suffer.
The lawyers can be "congratulated" for literally destroying not only GA,
but for the most part, the publics' faith and dependence in a true and
honest justice system.

--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques wrote:

If this is true, you are viewing what has become one of the prime
reasons associated with the virtual end of General Aviation as at least
I knew it for the first 25 years I was involved in aviation.
It's the trial lawyers. They will go after anything and everything with
deep pockets involved in an accident. They operate in conditions like
these on the premise that REGARDLESS of the appropriate and
inappropriate actions of a pilot, if one screw was out of place on the
aircraft itself, the manufacturer can be litigated for financial gain.
In many cases, it is my understanding that manufacturers simply "settle"
the suits rather than defend them based upon specific lawyers
reputations for their ability to sway juries.
It's nothing but sheer extortion in the majority of the cases.

A truly unfortunate aside to this "practice" is that the phony
litigations are so frequent and so costly, there is a very good chance
that the legitimate cases where there actually is just cause for a
lawsuit are often looked at in the same jaundiced eye by the public as
the phony cases and true justice can suffer.
The lawyers can be "congratulated" for literally destroying not only GA,
but for the most part, the publics' faith and dependence in a true and
honest justice system.


Well stated Sir. This sort of tort-addicted mentality has to change
in this country or there will be little hope. Not enough people
realize just exactly HOW MUCH they are paying for _everything_
because of lawsuits. Most people have received a pitiful economic
education in this country (thanks to the in-bred nature of government
schools) tso they don't have a clue.

Sad... really sad.

"kontiki" wrote

Most people have received a pitiful economic
education in this country (thanks to the in-bred nature of government
schools) tso they don't have a clue.

********************************

I am sick to death of everyone placing the blame for everything on
"government schools." It is very possible to get a good education at
government schools, if you want to learn. The blame for most of the
problems with government schools is the lack of motivation of the students,
and is a failure of the parents of kids who are not motivated to learn.

What does economic education have to do with leaning about a hopelessly
screwed up justice system have to do with the price of beans in China? That
seems like it would be a government-social studies failure, if anything.

Is a government school responsible for you not being able to proof read your
posts? It must be, to write "tso they don't have a clue."

I just lost a bit of respect for you. I thought you were smarter than to
play a blame game like you showed in a post like this.
--
Jim in NC

I am sick to death of everyone placing the blame for everything on
"government schools." It is very possible to get a good education at
government schools, if you want to learn. The blame for most of the
problems with government schools is the lack of motivation of the students,
and is a failure of the parents of kids who are not motivated to learn.

Hear, hear! Well put.

That said, there *is* a slant to the way things are taught in schools
that I find disturbing. To grossly over-simplify, this slant amounts
to an over-egalitarian "Everyone is equal, no one is better than
anyone else, everyone plays no matter how inept, business is evil but
the gummint will take care of you from cradle-to-grave" attitude that
sounds great on paper but produces kids without a work ethic or moral
compass.

Luckily, this can be easily "over-written" with proper parenting
skills. My kids are receiving an excellent public school education,
and are now at the age where they no longer need to be "de-programmed"
at the end of the school day. They can -- and often do -- sniff out
the slant on their own.

I think Kontiki was referring to this slant more than anything
specific about the educational process. Too many parents aren't aware
of (or don't care about) this subtle undercurrent in the schools that,
over time, has produced a society of lazy, sue-happy "it's not my
fault!" people.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:

That said, there *is* a slant to the way things are taught in schools
that I find disturbing. To grossly over-simplify, this slant amounts
to an over-egalitarian "Everyone is equal, no one is better than
anyone else, everyone plays no matter how inept, business is evil but
the gummint will take care of you from cradle-to-grave" attitude that
sounds great on paper but produces kids without a work ethic or moral
compass.


The reason there is a "slant" to a public education is that the
vast majority of teachers graduate from public schools, then
go to a college or university then go right into teaching. That
is inbreeding... pretty much the same way with politicians...
most have never had an actual real job in their life.

I'm not gonna argue this beyond what I have just said because
those that believe in these systems will defend them forever.
Meanwhile, the US continues into its slow economic and cultural
decline. The current state of GA is but a symptom of this.

People like to shoot the messenger but its a fact.

On Dec 2, 6:57 am, Jay Honeck wrote:

Hear, hear! Well put.

That said, there *is* a slant to the way things are taught in schools
that I find disturbing. To grossly over-simplify, this slant amounts
to an over-egalitarian "Everyone is equal, no one is better than
anyone else, everyone plays no matter how inept, business is evil but
the gummint will take care of you from cradle-to-grave" attitude that
sounds great on paper but produces kids without a work ethic or moral
compass.

This "Everyone is equal" teaching really gets in the way of your
supremist slant.

Luckily, this can be easily "over-written" with proper parenting
skills.

Jay, you Uber Parent you! Tell us more about how bitchen you are.

Too many parents aren't aware
of (or don't care about) this subtle undercurrent in the schools that,
over time, has produced a society of lazy, sue-happy "it's not my
fault!" people.

Here is that "Everyone education is flawed" thing again. This comes
uip in many of your posts. Can you not accept that others might have
opinions other than your own?
FB
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
...
I am sick to death of everyone placing the blame for everything on
"government schools." It is very possible to get a good education at
government schools, if you want to learn.

If you want to learn what?

The blame for most of the
problems with government schools is the lack of motivation of the
students,
and is a failure of the parents of kids who are not motivated to learn.

Even where such motivation exists, the methods ot modern "teaching" is an
utter failure. Recall, too, that the schools have been telling parents for
decades to "Shut up...we're the experts". Those lacadasical parents are
products of earlier generations of public schools and their teaching of
irresponsibility. IOW, the chickens have come home to roost.


Hear, hear! Well put.

Not really. Just more typical excuse making that is become a cottage
industry in the US.


That said, there *is* a slant to the way things are taught in schools
that I find disturbing. To grossly over-simplify, this slant amounts
to an over-egalitarian "Everyone is equal, no one is better than
anyone else, everyone plays no matter how inept, business is evil but
the gummint will take care of you from cradle-to-grave" attitude that
sounds great on paper but produces kids without a work ethic or moral
compass.

Luckily, this can be easily "over-written" with proper parenting
skills. My kids are receiving an excellent public school education,
and are now at the age where they no longer need to be "de-programmed"
at the end of the school day. They can -- and often do -- sniff out
the slant on their own.

If they have to stift it out, they're not getting an excellent public school
education. The entire purpose of public schools is NOT education, and hasn't
been since the days of Thomas Mann in the 1840's.


I think Kontiki was referring to this slant more than anything
specific about the educational process. Too many parents aren't aware
of (or don't care about) this subtle undercurrent in the schools that,
over time, has produced a society of lazy, sue-happy "it's not my
fault!" people.

Look up the word "epistemology", then evaluate how the schools practice it.

Then grab your butt.

(I'll not wait for more of Morgan's adolesant alibis.)

Morgans wrote:
"kontiki" wrote

Most people have received a pitiful economic
education in this country (thanks to the in-bred nature of government
schools) tso they don't have a clue.

********************************

I am sick to death of everyone placing the blame for everything on
"government schools." It is very possible to get a good education at
government schools, if you want to learn. The blame for most of the
problems with government schools is the lack of motivation of the students,
and is a failure of the parents of kids who are not motivated to learn.

What does economic education have to do with leaning about a hopelessly
screwed up justice system have to do with the price of beans in China? That
seems like it would be a government-social studies failure, if anything.

Blaming the schools alone isn't legitimate, but they certainly have been
a significant contributor. Public schools long ago moved from a
"personal responsibility" to a "self-esteem" based approached that has
been disastrous and is a significant contributor to many of society's
problems today.

No longer can schools punish students as it is either illegal or will
harm the students' self-esteem. When a student fails a class, we blame
everyone but the student and find a way to move them along anyway. I
know you have public school connections (your wife as I recall), but the
reality is that public schools HAVE contributed to this phenomenon of
sending subtle, and sometimes not so subtle, messages that nothing is
YOUR fault it is the fault of the "system", and don't worry as the
"system" will take care of you anyway.

Matt

Matt Whiting wrote:

No longer can schools punish students as it is either illegal or will
harm the students' self-esteem. When a student fails a class, we blame
everyone but the student and find a way to move them along anyway. I
know you have public school connections (your wife as I recall), but the
reality is that public schools HAVE contributed to this phenomenon of
sending subtle, and sometimes not so subtle, messages that nothing is
YOUR fault it is the fault of the "system", and don't worry as the
"system" will take care of you anyway.


Yes, its a huge problem that tends to feed on itself. But before
any solution can be attained there must first be a recognition
that a problem exists and an understanding of the nature of
the problem. Then there must be the ability to use some critical
thinking (i.e. thinking outside the box) that most people lack.

I submit that this is to a significant degree due to the fact that
it is not taught or even encouraged in the current education system.
There are other factors of course, but I our education system is
probably the most important one. If someone is not educated enough
to recognize that a problem exists there can never be a solution.