Cessna sued for skydiving accident.

Jay Honeck wrote:
We need to get rid of silly federal and state mandates for student
testing that require teachers teach to a test and little else.

I agree with everything else in your post, but this.

IMHO, No Child Left Behind -- flawed though it may be -- is the first
step in the right direction toward improving our schools. For the
first time in my lifetime teachers are being held to a real,
measurable standard -- which is the first necessary step to addressing
any systemic problems that may exist.


It was a great idea that doesn't work in its' application. The schools and
teachers have to spend most of the year doing nothing but teach to a test
and it isn't even a very well written test.

And how many individual teachers do you know that have been terminated
because of NCLB I know of none and of several that should have never been
allowed to teach in the first place.

On 12/5/2007 12:26:38 AM, skym wrote:

I don't have an opinion one way or the other.

I do. Good coffee has to be brewed and served very hot.

http://www.peets.com/learn/coffee_basics.asp

Anyone who grinds right before they brew knows that.

--
Peter

Jay Honeck wrote:
I don't have an opinion one way or the other. Those were the facts
of the case.

THANK YOU for sharing the facts of the case. They are very
enlightening.

None of the facts, IMHO, pin ANY blame on the folks who brewed the
coffee. McDonald's was wronged, plain and simple.

How about you respond as the defendant to these.

6. In discovery, it was disclosd that McD had over 700 previous claims
by people burned in a ten year period just before this incident,
including 3rd degree burns. This establishd McD's prior knowledge of
the extent and nature of the hazard.

7. McD also said that it it intentionally held th temp between 180
and 190 F. When

11. McD admitted that it knew that any food substance served at or
above 140 F is a burn hazard, and that at the temp they served it, it
was not fit for human consumption.

12. They also admitted that they knew burns would occur, but had
decided to keep the temp at 185 anyway.

15. McD told the jury that customers buy coffee on their way to work,
intending to drink it there. However, their own research was brought
out that showed that customers intend to consume the coffee
immediately while driving.

Peter R. wrote:
On 12/5/2007 12:26:38 AM, skym wrote:

I don't have an opinion one way or the other.

I do. Good coffee has to be brewed and served very hot.

http://www.peets.com/learn/coffee_basics.asp

Anyone who grinds right before they brew knows that.


What does "Good coffee" or any other food product with the term good in
front of it have to do with McDs?

Also, while you link does say, "The best temperature for brewing coffee is
between 195 F and 205 F." it doesn't say it should be served at that
temperature. If I cook a prime rib at 375 F I don't plan to serve it at that
temperature.

In article ,
Jay Honeck wrote:

I don't have an opinion one way or the other. Those were the facts of
the case.

THANK YOU for sharing the facts of the case. They are very
enlightening.

None of the facts, IMHO, pin ANY blame on the folks who brewed the
coffee. McDonald's was wronged, plain and simple.

I'm curious to know: Did the woman's hired guns go after the Bunn
Corporation, makers of the coffee brewing equipment that McDonald's
used? Clearly their equipment is brewing coffee that is too hot?

Clearly the equipment is improperly designed since it allows the coffee
to be brewed and dispensed at too high a temp.

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

Bob Noel wrote:
In article ,
"Robert M. Gary" wrote:


On Dec 4, 10:23 am, "Maxwell" wrote:


I've pondered that a few times myself Ross, and I think I would have to
agree. I think judges do a good job with their experience, but they too
often tend to get too anal with the letter of the law and loose a bit of
their ability to judge. Seems a trained panel could do a better job of
looking at cases from different angles, and reaching the most reasonable
conclusion. The way we select juries today can often be a real turkey shoot.

Think about the type of people who are not excused from jury duty.
Depending on the judge juriors can be excused because they have a lot
going on at work, because they have a business meeting etc. The self-
employed are almost always excused. Especially in a long trial you end
up with welfare moms, state employees, and retirees. Hardly our
peers.


hmmm, not many people get excused from jury duty in taxachusetts.
I sure didn't get excused.


I see a lot of folks walk up and get excused but I cannot hear why. One
time I was going to ask for an excuse due to lots of work travel. Before
I did the judge gave his talk about duty. I swear I could hear America
the Beautiful playing in the background. After he retired I told him my
story and he laughed. I stayed that day.

--

Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
KSWI

Jay Honeck wrote:

I don't have an opinion one way or the other. Those were the facts of
the case.


THANK YOU for sharing the facts of the case. They are very
enlightening.

None of the facts, IMHO, pin ANY blame on the folks who brewed the
coffee. McDonald's was wronged, plain and simple.

I'm curious to know: Did the woman's hired guns go after the Bunn
Corporation, makers of the coffee brewing equipment that McDonald's
used? Clearly their equipment is brewing coffee that is too hot?

How 'bout the makers of the stryofoam cups? How about the lid
manufacturer? How about the driver of the car who must've jerked
suddenly to make her spill the coffee?

Where does this end?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Kind of like the bartender that gets sued because someone leaves his
place and gets into an accident. I agree, where does it end and personal
responsibility take over.

--

Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
KSWI

On 12/5/2007 10:40:30 AM, "Gig 601XL Builder" wrote:

Also, while you link does say, "The best temperature for brewing coffee is
between 195 F and 205 F." it doesn't say it should be served at that
temperature.

So you brew a pot of coffee at that temperature, then what? Wait 20 minutes
for it to cool down? Of course not. You draw off a cup right away.

Also your prime rib example is not a valid comparison. Beef has to sit 5 to
10 minutes before you cut into it or you risk losing all the juice and making
it too dry.


--
Peter

"Jay Honeck" wrot

IMHO, No Child Left Behind -- flawed though it may be -- is the first
step in the right direction toward improving our schools. For the
first time in my lifetime teachers are being held to a real,
measurable standard -- which is the first necessary step to addressing
any systemic problems that may exist.

One big problem with it is that there are individual students that can not
cope with the setting that we are forced to put them into.

Also, vast sums of money are put into these very low performing students,
which take away from funds that are available to be spent on good kids like
Joe.

Also, the teaching to a test is a real problem. There is such pressure to
get to all of the material, that a teacher can not take the time to work
with something that the students have real interest in, and want to explore
in more detail. Sorry, got to keep moving on to the next unit.
--
Jim in NC

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote

This is the same judge that when after the jury pool was asked if we new
any of the lawyers or principles in the case and I answered "Yes, your
honor, I play golf with the defendant's lawyer as I often play with you."
He said, "Yes, Mr. Giacona, I've seen you allegedly play golf and I've
seen you lie on a score card but you weren't under oath so I won't hold
that against you."

I did a week once, and sat for two days, and finally got called for
interviewing for one case, which was a drunk driving case. The problem was
that the arresting officer was a good friend of mine.

The lawyer was told in a whisper that the police officer knew me, and asked
if I could be impartial, even though I knew the officer, and I said that I
would judge the case on its merits, to which the lawyer said that might be
hard since I was only human, and asked for me to be excused from that case.

I was finally seated on a medical incompetence hearing, and that was it for
the week.

Most of the time I was just trying to stay awake. Boring, to say the least.
--
Jim in NC