A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Soaring
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

SSA 2018 Rules Finish Penalty



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old January 3rd 18, 09:09 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 155
Default SSA 2018 Rules Finish Penalty

I will give you my take as a very new person to Soaring comp, but being pretty competitive person by nature.

To me the sport was about the use of energy given by nature and decision making to best use that energy. I think you can finish at any height and allow those as the two factors decide the winner.

In my limited experience I have had 2 situations that really gave me concern while flying - both at contests in the pattern to land after finishing.

One a guy after doing his high speed pass decided to slip between me and two guys in the pattern - I didn't see him come from below until he was way to close for comfort. Scared the crap out of me.

Another was a guy without enough energy to get into the pattern landed against the flow of landing gliders - it was hard to watch.

Sorry but I know there is a thrill of doing a low pass at high speed, but I am sure low pass finishes and inching onto an airport when there are 30+ planes with no engines trying to do the one and only landing they can do, is very smart or good for Soaring.

On non-comp days - I am all in!

WH


  #52  
Old January 3rd 18, 10:23 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tango Eight
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 962
Default SSA 2018 Rules Finish Penalty

What's the point of being exacting about the finish when our turns, even on an assigned task, have literal miles of wiggle room (and are scored to the pilot's best advantage)? Surely a minor tuneup to Winscore could choose the optimum finish point for a complete task, anywhere in a 15 mile radius circle.

/s

-Evan Ludeman / T8
  #53  
Old January 3rd 18, 11:12 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,124
Default SSA 2018 Rules Finish Penalty

On Wednesday, January 3, 2018 at 4:23:33 PM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
What's the point of being exacting about the finish when our turns, even on an assigned task, have literal miles of wiggle room (and are scored to the pilot's best advantage)? Surely a minor tuneup to Winscore could choose the optimum finish point for a complete task, anywhere in a 15 mile radius circle.

/s

-Evan Ludeman / T8


We do get scored to the optimum point, it just happens to be on a 1 or 2 mile radius circle. I've used that wiggle room lots of times to get a bit more distance. Gonna be a little early, finish at the side of the circle.
UH
  #54  
Old January 3rd 18, 11:23 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tony[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,965
Default SSA 2018 Rules Finish Penalty

uh Hank???

11.2.3.3 For completed tasks, the final leg ends at the Finish Point; any finish radius is subtracted from its length.

Sure you can use up another mile worth of time by going to the edge of the finish circle but the way i read it you don't get credit for that distance.

Unless you are flying the 1-26 Championships. They score to entry point of the circle. You can finish in the "back" of the circle. Now that SSA has adopted starting out the back like the 1-26's have done for ever, maybe its time the SSA allows finishing in the back too
  #55  
Old January 4th 18, 01:44 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
John Godfrey (QT)[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 321
Default SSA 2018 Rules Finish Penalty

On Wednesday, January 3, 2018 at 5:12:11 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wednesday, January 3, 2018 at 4:23:33 PM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
What's the point of being exacting about the finish when our turns, even on an assigned task, have literal miles of wiggle room (and are scored to the pilot's best advantage)? Surely a minor tuneup to Winscore could choose the optimum finish point for a complete task, anywhere in a 15 mile radius circle.

/s

-Evan Ludeman / T8


We do get scored to the optimum point, it just happens to be on a 1 or 2 mile radius circle. I've used that wiggle room lots of times to get a bit more distance. Gonna be a little early, finish at the side of the circle.
UH


Huh? Surely the RC chair jests.
  #56  
Old January 4th 18, 02:01 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,124
Default SSA 2018 Rules Finish Penalty

On Wednesday, January 3, 2018 at 7:44:26 PM UTC-5, John Godfrey (QT) wrote:
On Wednesday, January 3, 2018 at 5:12:11 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wednesday, January 3, 2018 at 4:23:33 PM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
What's the point of being exacting about the finish when our turns, even on an assigned task, have literal miles of wiggle room (and are scored to the pilot's best advantage)? Surely a minor tuneup to Winscore could choose the optimum finish point for a complete task, anywhere in a 15 mile radius circle.

/s

-Evan Ludeman / T8


We do get scored to the optimum point, it just happens to be on a 1 or 2 mile radius circle. I've used that wiggle room lots of times to get a bit more distance. Gonna be a little early, finish at the side of the circle.
UH


Huh? Surely the RC chair jests.


Yep I screwed that one up
UH
  #57  
Old January 4th 18, 06:31 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Andy Blackburn[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 608
Default SSA 2018 Rules Finish Penalty

On Wednesday, January 3, 2018 at 1:23:33 PM UTC-8, Tango Eight wrote:
What's the point of being exacting about the finish when our turns, even on an assigned task, have literal miles of wiggle room (and are scored to the pilot's best advantage)? Surely a minor tuneup to Winscore could choose the optimum finish point for a complete task, anywhere in a 15 mile radius circle.

/s

-Evan Ludeman / T8


There have been proposals to do that for starts - it would simplify a lot of pre-start complexity, but add some on course uncertainty, particularly on time-limited tasks since the pilot wouldn't know until after the flight exactly where or when (s)he stated for scoring purposes.

it seems a little superfluous to to it for finishes since most of the time the final glide speed exceeds the average speed on course up to the beginning of the final glide. Therefore, the optimal finish point would be at the end of the glide (remember the 10-minute rule? it was designed to eliminate the effect of the final glide on overall average speed on course).

Setting such a fines up as a circle around the airport would lead to some unpleasant brinksmanship as pilots overfly the airport and continue out into the boonies until they are either out of altitude and have to land out, or reach the limit of their comfort that they can turn around and still make it back to the airport at best L/D. That seems counter-productive to safety and not particularly a good measure of soaring skill.

Andy Blackburn
9B
  #58  
Old January 4th 18, 02:20 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tango Eight
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 962
Default SSA 2018 Rules Finish Penalty

On Thursday, January 4, 2018 at 12:31:57 AM UTC-5, Andy Blackburn wrote:
On Wednesday, January 3, 2018 at 1:23:33 PM UTC-8, Tango Eight wrote:
What's the point of being exacting about the finish when our turns, even on an assigned task, have literal miles of wiggle room (and are scored to the pilot's best advantage)? Surely a minor tuneup to Winscore could choose the optimum finish point for a complete task, anywhere in a 15 mile radius circle.

/s

-Evan Ludeman / T8


There have been proposals to do that for starts - it would simplify a lot of pre-start complexity, but add some on course uncertainty, particularly on time-limited tasks since the pilot wouldn't know until after the flight exactly where or when (s)he stated for scoring purposes.

it seems a little superfluous to to it for finishes since most of the time the final glide speed exceeds the average speed on course up to the beginning of the final glide. Therefore, the optimal finish point would be at the end of the glide (remember the 10-minute rule? it was designed to eliminate the effect of the final glide on overall average speed on course).

Setting such a fines up as a circle around the airport would lead to some unpleasant brinksmanship as pilots overfly the airport and continue out into the boonies until they are either out of altitude and have to land out, or reach the limit of their comfort that they can turn around and still make it back to the airport at best L/D. That seems counter-productive to safety and not particularly a good measure of soaring skill.

Andy Blackburn
9B


Jus' to clarify...

"/s" is internet shorthand for "sarcasm".

I've always been fine with clearly & narrowly defined starts, finishes, total loss of speed points if you miss either gate. The only thing I don't care for on the high finish is that the only place I can see it is inside my cockpit. The old zero agl line finish had a big advantage in that respect. However, on balance, I agree that the high finish solves more problems than it creates.

best,
Evan Ludeman / T8
  #59  
Old January 4th 18, 04:38 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
John Godfrey (QT)[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 321
Default SSA 2018 Rules Finish Penalty

On Thursday, January 4, 2018 at 8:20:45 AM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
On Thursday, January 4, 2018 at 12:31:57 AM UTC-5, Andy Blackburn wrote:
On Wednesday, January 3, 2018 at 1:23:33 PM UTC-8, Tango Eight wrote:
What's the point of being exacting about the finish when our turns, even on an assigned task, have literal miles of wiggle room (and are scored to the pilot's best advantage)? Surely a minor tuneup to Winscore could choose the optimum finish point for a complete task, anywhere in a 15 mile radius circle.

/s

-Evan Ludeman / T8


There have been proposals to do that for starts - it would simplify a lot of pre-start complexity, but add some on course uncertainty, particularly on time-limited tasks since the pilot wouldn't know until after the flight exactly where or when (s)he stated for scoring purposes.

it seems a little superfluous to to it for finishes since most of the time the final glide speed exceeds the average speed on course up to the beginning of the final glide. Therefore, the optimal finish point would be at the end of the glide (remember the 10-minute rule? it was designed to eliminate the effect of the final glide on overall average speed on course).

Setting such a fines up as a circle around the airport would lead to some unpleasant brinksmanship as pilots overfly the airport and continue out into the boonies until they are either out of altitude and have to land out, or reach the limit of their comfort that they can turn around and still make it back to the airport at best L/D. That seems counter-productive to safety and not particularly a good measure of soaring skill.

Andy Blackburn
9B


Jus' to clarify...

"/s" is internet shorthand for "sarcasm".

I've always been fine with clearly & narrowly defined starts, finishes, total loss of speed points if you miss either gate. The only thing I don't care for on the high finish is that the only place I can see it is inside my cockpit. The old zero agl line finish had a big advantage in that respect. However, on balance, I agree that the high finish solves more problems than it creates.

best,
Evan Ludeman / T8


Well said T8. IIWK, I would have a finish criteria that gave you credit for total energy (not just altitude) by some formula even a pilot could do in their head.

I would also have a final glide computer that gave me useful audio monitoring of above/below required TE.
  #60  
Old January 5th 18, 01:44 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Andy Blackburn[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 608
Default SSA 2018 Rules Finish Penalty

On Thursday, January 4, 2018 at 5:20:45 AM UTC-8, Tango Eight wrote:

Oops, my bad! Missed the /s at the bottom. On the other hand, it provoked a very nice clarification.

AB
9B

Jus' to clarify...

"/s" is internet shorthand for "sarcasm".

I've always been fine with clearly & narrowly defined starts, finishes, total loss of speed points if you miss either gate. The only thing I don't care for on the high finish is that the only place I can see it is inside my cockpit. The old zero agl line finish had a big advantage in that respect. However, on balance, I agree that the high finish solves more problems than it creates.

best,
Evan Ludeman / T8


 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2018 Proposed US Competition Rules Changes [email protected] Soaring 0 December 30th 17 12:45 AM
See You 3.95 and U.S. Start/Finish rules [email protected] Soaring 2 March 27th 12 04:25 PM
UO penalty @ Hobbs For Example John Smith Soaring 4 June 12th 05 08:34 PM
TFR Penalty Magellan Piloting 9 September 5th 04 01:24 AM
Rules for 1000k with start/finish at midpoint. Andrew Warbrick Soaring 2 August 10th 04 05:04 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.