Youth Members in your (US) Club

Hi all,

I need your input on an issue that has led to an ongoing, heated
debate ever since my son joined our soaring club at age 14. He begun
taking lessons and soloed during a youth soaring camp organized by
another club this summer. A small but vocal group of members are
stricktly against youth- and family memberships. Kids under 18 are
considered a liability, a hazard to themself during the operation and
just not desirable members in their minds. All kinds of half-baked
legalities are being cited i.e. that the club could get dragged down
finacially if a minor would get hurt and a suit be filed by the
parents, etc. I can't shake the impression that these guys would like
to have a 'good 'ol boy county club with planes'! (Heck, the golf
carts are already there!)

Therefore my questions: Does your club have a youth/family membership
category with reduced dues and/or waived initiation fees? Does your
club have a youth program? Have there ever been any legal/insurance
issues with minor members in your club? Any input is appreciated. (you
may reply privately, if you don't want to discuss this on the net)

Ulrich Neumann

We support youth soaring with a discounted membership rate.

Most of the income to the club is from youth taking flying lessons.

Our group insurance covers us, but in the event of a parental law suit for
injuries.. no club is safe from financial ruin, could even happen if an
adult is hurt and a disgruntled wife who hated flying finds a lawyer.

Our instructors are pretty good evaluators of flying capability and
attentiveness of the student, adult or otherwise. We've actually had to
discourage more adults from learning to fly, then the youths. We've actually
"kicked out" some adult rated pilots for their risky flying and not willing
to change. They lead a poor example of professionalism for our kids.

We have not had any legal problems with any of our members, youth or adult.

BT

"Ulrich Neumann" wrote in message
om...
Hi all,

I need your input on an issue that has led to an ongoing, heated
debate ever since my son joined our soaring club at age 14. He begun
taking lessons and soloed during a youth soaring camp organized by
another club this summer. A small but vocal group of members are
stricktly against youth- and family memberships. Kids under 18 are
considered a liability, a hazard to themself during the operation and
just not desirable members in their minds. All kinds of half-baked
legalities are being cited i.e. that the club could get dragged down
finacially if a minor would get hurt and a suit be filed by the
parents, etc. I can't shake the impression that these guys would like
to have a 'good 'ol boy county club with planes'! (Heck, the golf
carts are already there!)

Therefore my questions: Does your club have a youth/family membership
category with reduced dues and/or waived initiation fees? Does your
club have a youth program? Have there ever been any legal/insurance
issues with minor members in your club? Any input is appreciated. (you
may reply privately, if you don't want to discuss this on the net)

Ulrich Neumann

"Ulrich Neumann" wrote in message
om...
Hi all,

I need your input on an issue that has led to an ongoing, heated
debate ever since my son joined our soaring club at age 14. He begun
taking lessons and soloed during a youth soaring camp organized by
another club this summer. A small but vocal group of members are
stricktly against youth- and family memberships. Kids under 18 are
considered a liability, a hazard to themself during the operation and
just not desirable members in their minds. All kinds of half-baked
legalities are being cited i.e. that the club could get dragged down
finacially if a minor would get hurt and a suit be filed by the
parents, etc. I can't shake the impression that these guys would like
to have a 'good 'ol boy county club with planes'! (Heck, the golf
carts are already there!)

Therefore my questions: Does your club have a youth/family membership
category with reduced dues and/or waived initiation fees? Does your
club have a youth program? Have there ever been any legal/insurance
issues with minor members in your club? Any input is appreciated. (you
may reply privately, if you don't want to discuss this on the net)

Ulrich Neumann
My club supports both youth and family members with discounted joining fees
and dues (50%). You are no more likely to be sued by a parent than a
widow(er) in the event of an incident. If you are training to approved
standards and documenting such training, there should be no issues. If
there are holes in that picture, there are other, more serious issues that
need tending to.

Youth programs can consist of simple support/relief to formalized full-ride,
merit/performance based youth programs such as Harris Hill Soaring or Texas
Soaring Association, that go beyond simple fee reduction.

Youth programs and club planning will be on the club track program on Friday
at the 2005 SSA Convention.

Frank Whiteley

Hi, at my club here in the UK we see things similar to yourself.

We do get a fair amount of youngsters in during the summer months (school
or college hols) but they drop off during the term times. One point that
seems
to fit a fair amount of returnees though is that they went gliding during
their youth. So
if your guys want to cut off older members in later times, let them carry
on.

Probably like most hobbies/sports you see the same as we do, a declining
youth
level and older and older pilots? This point affects even the instructor
levels
and is a source of much anguish in the sport.

I suggest you put some of these "older mentality" guys out to grass!

Malcolm... (aged 53 and 3/4's)


"Ulrich Neumann" wrote in message
om...
Hi all,

I need your input on an issue that has led to an ongoing, heated
debate ever since my son joined our soaring club at age 14. He begun
taking lessons and soloed during a youth soaring camp organized by
another club this summer. A small but vocal group of members are
stricktly against youth- and family memberships. Kids under 18 are
considered a liability, a hazard to themself during the operation and
just not desirable members in their minds. All kinds of half-baked
legalities are being cited i.e. that the club could get dragged down
finacially if a minor would get hurt and a suit be filed by the
parents, etc. I can't shake the impression that these guys would like
to have a 'good 'ol boy county club with planes'! (Heck, the golf
carts are already there!)

Therefore my questions: Does your club have a youth/family membership
category with reduced dues and/or waived initiation fees? Does your
club have a youth program? Have there ever been any legal/insurance
issues with minor members in your club? Any input is appreciated. (you
may reply privately, if you don't want to discuss this on the net)

Ulrich Neumann

Our club actively supports youth soaring and family memberships. We
recognize that as we look at out young members we are looking at the
future of soaring.

Our support includes not only discounted membership, but a very active
youth scholarship program which is entirely supported by donations,
mostly from members, not dues. The club also supports the local CAP
cadet soaring program and allows them use of our facilities without
charge.

The "Soaring Magazine" Milestones column each month also provides a
thumbnail sketch of many club's support of youth activity.

Skip Guimond

(Ulrich Neumann) wrote in message . com...
Hi all,

I need your input on an issue that has led to an ongoing, heated
debate ever since my son joined our soaring club at age 14. He begun
taking lessons and soloed during a youth soaring camp organized by
another club this summer. A small but vocal group of members are
stricktly against youth- and family memberships. Kids under 18 are
considered a liability, a hazard to themself during the operation and
just not desirable members in their minds. All kinds of half-baked
legalities are being cited i.e. that the club could get dragged down
finacially if a minor would get hurt and a suit be filed by the
parents, etc. I can't shake the impression that these guys would like
to have a 'good 'ol boy county club with planes'! (Heck, the golf
carts are already there!)

Therefore my questions: Does your club have a youth/family membership
category with reduced dues and/or waived initiation fees? Does your
club have a youth program? Have there ever been any legal/insurance
issues with minor members in your club? Any input is appreciated. (you
may reply privately, if you don't want to discuss this on the net)

Ulrich Neumann

Reply:
One of the purposes stated in our club(Valley Soaring Club- Middletown
NY) is to provide opportunities to soar for youth.
We strongly support this activity. Cost to learn is a bit less than
1/2 of regular members which covers variable costs but does not
contribute to fixed costs. This works for us.
Jr's have a 1-26 provided that costs $0 per hour after they qualify to
fly it. They pay for tows.
Jr's are expected to do extra to help in operations.
We've been doing this for more than 25 years with excellent results.
The kids take the sport seriously and show the same good judgement as
the adults around them.
Have met your son and expect he should do well. He needs to show he is
serious and has the discipline to be a safe contributor to the club.
Tell the old farts to watch how well a young person can do with a
little help.
I've NEVER seen a bad kid at the airport.
Contact me privately if I can be of more help.
UH

Hi,

A quick note about our club policies. At Memphis Soaring Society all
memberships are FAMILY memberships. This means that spouses and children
are included in one initiation fee. There is the additional fee for the SSA
memberships of the additional family members, but that is small. Our club
encourages the sport and glider port as a family activity. We have a small
number of youth who are actually flying at this time. In the short time
that I have been a member (2.5 years) there have been no incidents where
youth has been a factor.

With that being said, my spouse has said she has no intent of ever seeing
the gliderport. Oh well.....

I do think this is a great policy for a club to take. Somewhere deep in the
charter of this club it is stated one purpose is to provide flight training
for the lowest cost possible.

Now from my personal viewpoint. I began flying at 15 (power) and only
wish this sort of club had been available. This is an aging sport, we MUST
encourage youth soaring or this sport will wither. The affiliation with CAP
is well meaning, but most kids do not wish to march in uniform to the barked
orders of some wanna-a-be colonel who probably never served a day in his
life. (My apologies to some of the few stellar squadrons out there) I
think that clubs that promote youth flying are clubs that are working to
insure their own futures. (Just a personal opinion) I am going to enclose
the url to our club's website if anyone is interested.

In closing,,, please forgive me for my self-serving promotion of our
club..... To the Ulrich,,, I hope you are able to find encouragement for
your son from your organization, after all, it is in THEIR best interest
also. and btw....send me your mail address email. I think I never sent you
the mylar I promised last year for root seals.

Take Care and Fly Safe,

Joe Hyde


http://www.memphis-soaring.org/



"Ulrich Neumann" wrote in message
om...
Hi all,

I need your input on an issue that has led to an ongoing, heated
debate ever since my son joined our soaring club at age 14. He begun
taking lessons and soloed during a youth soaring camp organized by
another club this summer. A small but vocal group of members are
stricktly against youth- and family memberships. Kids under 18 are
considered a liability, a hazard to themself during the operation and
just not desirable members in their minds. All kinds of half-baked
legalities are being cited i.e. that the club could get dragged down
finacially if a minor would get hurt and a suit be filed by the
parents, etc. I can't shake the impression that these guys would like
to have a 'good 'ol boy county club with planes'! (Heck, the golf
carts are already there!)

Therefore my questions: Does your club have a youth/family membership
category with reduced dues and/or waived initiation fees? Does your
club have a youth program? Have there ever been any legal/insurance
issues with minor members in your club? Any input is appreciated. (you
may reply privately, if you don't want to discuss this on the net)

Ulrich Neumann

Ulrich....

The situation you describe is somthing that many parents and juniors
deal with all the time. I was lucky enough to start flying (when 14)
at an operation that supported juniors, and all my local clubs have
always been like that. My experience in other places, however, hasn't
been as great.

I've flown at several commercial operations throughout the years, all
of them seemingly convinced my sole purpose in attempting to rent their
equipment was to break it. Standard procedure when checking out
juniors seems to be multiple rope breaks at places I don't consider
safe at all (and, as an instructor, would never put a student, pilot
getting a BFR or spring checkout, ect. in). At one location, after
satisfying their instructor, I was actually complemented. At another,
after the 3rd ropebreak in a row this one in a position that was beyond
my not safe level (and into my punch the instructor in the face area) I
walked away no longer interested in flying there.

Incidently, two things came from that. One, the instructor recently
ran for the SSA Board on a "pro juniors" position. Its amazing what
people will say to try to get elected. Thank god he didnt. Secondly,
a pilot was recently killed because of a rope break at that airport. I
called a friend, only to find out that the ropebreak occured at the
same place and altitude where I had been given an intentional
ropebreak. I guess now I'm glad I'm still alive today.

In many places, there seems to be an anti-youth culture. I can
remember one MAJOR figure in soaring and a prominent author write an
article about how he thought DPE's weren't following the PTS as they
should be. All of his examples cited juniors who he felt shouldnt be a
private pilot, or even a CFIG. I think that on the whole, the majority
of pilots across all fields of aviation support youth, but there is a
small minority that dosen't. The problem with this is the minority is
vocal, and the majority in this country just haven't been doing whats
needed to be done to fix the situation.

Help is on the way, however. Watch this forumn for in the next few
weeks as myself and several others are working to form a major new
organization for Junior soaring in the US, and you should be seeing
somthing soon.

Kevin Christner, CFIG
Jantar Std. 2 N932KC

"Joseph L. Hyde" wrote in message
.. .
Hi,

A quick note about our club policies. At Memphis Soaring Society all
memberships are FAMILY memberships. This means that spouses and children
are included in one initiation fee. There is the additional fee for the
SSA
memberships of the additional family members, but that is small. Our club
encourages the sport and glider port as a family activity. We have a
small
number of youth who are actually flying at this time. In the short time
that I have been a member (2.5 years) there have been no incidents where
youth has been a factor.

With that being said, my spouse has said she has no intent of ever seeing
the gliderport. Oh well.....

I do think this is a great policy for a club to take. Somewhere deep in
the
charter of this club it is stated one purpose is to provide flight
training
for the lowest cost possible.

Now from my personal viewpoint. I began flying at 15 (power) and only
wish this sort of club had been available. This is an aging sport, we
MUST
encourage youth soaring or this sport will wither. The affiliation with
CAP
is well meaning, but most kids do not wish to march in uniform to the
barked
orders of some wanna-a-be colonel who probably never served a day in his
life. (My apologies to some of the few stellar squadrons out there) I
think that clubs that promote youth flying are clubs that are working to
insure their own futures. (Just a personal opinion) I am going to
enclose
the url to our club's website if anyone is interested.

In closing,,, please forgive me for my self-serving promotion of our
club..... To the Ulrich,,, I hope you are able to find encouragement
for
your son from your organization, after all, it is in THEIR best interest
also. and btw....send me your mail address email. I think I never sent
you
the mylar I promised last year for root seals.

Take Care and Fly Safe,

Joe Hyde

Surprisingly, wear of the uniform was one of the big draws to CAP (according
to a survey). My local CAP squadron does scant little, if any, flying.
Other squadrons do much better. Explorer Scouting may be an opportunity to
organize a youth group with an aviation emphasis. See
http://www.learning-for-life.org/exp...ion/index.html

Frank Whiteley

"Ulrich Neumann" wrote in message
om...
Therefore my questions: Does your club have a youth/family membership
category with reduced dues and/or waived initiation fees? Does your
club have a youth program? Have there ever been any legal/insurance
issues with minor members in your club? Any input is appreciated. (you
may reply privately, if you don't want to discuss this on the net)

snip

Most of the Clubs in Region IV - including my own, Skyline - have some kind
of youth membershi/involvement with a special membership category/fee
structure. One (Tidewater) offers SUBSTANTIAL youth scholarships!!! In
addition, there's an active CAP program for youth in gliders, although not
every Wing (state) provides instrutcion beyond "Orientation rides".

FWIW, the "problem" - at the risk of horrible oversimplification - seems to
be a cultural one in which the "boomer" generation (and maybe the younger
"boomer echo" generation") is far, far more risk-averse than the generations
that currently represent the patriarchs of soaring (like mine - I'm 68 years
old.) Frankly, I think this cultural issue is one that we need to get a lot
smarter about in soaring if we're to survive . . . but the solution
certainly isn't to turn our collective backs on young people, but to figure
out how to deliver safe soaring to a short attention span, risk averse
population . . .


Jim Kellett, Resident Curmudgeon
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored ."
-Aldous Huxley