Report Leaving Assigned Altitude?

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

"Greg Esres" wrote in message
...

Non-Radar
6-6-2 Exceptions
Assign an altitude to an aircraft only after the aircraft previously
at that altitude has reported at or passing through another altitude
separated from the first by the appropriate minimum when:
...
c. The aircraft previously at the altitude has been:
1. Issued a clearance permitting climb/descent at pilot's
discretion.


Non-radar separation is not limited to non-radar environments.

FAA Order 7110.65P Air Traffic Control

Chapter 2. General Control

Section 1. General

2-1-3. PROCEDURAL PREFERENCE

a. Use automation procedures in preference to nonautomation procedures
when workload, communications, and equipment capabilities permit.

b. Use radar separation in preference to nonradar separation when it will
be to an operational advantage and workload, communications, and equipment
permit.

c. Use nonradar separation in preference to radar separation when the
situation dictates that an operational advantage will be gained.

NOTE-
One situation may be where vertical separation would preclude excessive
vectoring.

Aways, there is the question, what constitutes an operational advantage? I
don't mean it in this particular context, per se, but in all of FAAese.

"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote:

Well, first, the AIM is advisory, not regulatory. However, I also agree
that it is good practice to adhere to the AIM suggestions.

Oh, here we go again, reinventing the wheel. ;-) When the AIM pontificates
what any reasonable person would consider to be directive material, it is just
that--directive. The AIM cannot state "thou shall do this" because of
countless directives from the Department of Justice and even the federal
courts. To do so, would be issuing federal regulations without following the
Administrative Procedures Act.

Having said all that, if the AIM strongly suggests you do it, and you don't,
you can be charged with violating a relevant FAR. It's been done by the FAA
many times, and quite successfully.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...

That's not true. You can have multiple aircraft cleared for approach at
airports not served by radar, you just have to provide separation. Radar
isn't the only way to separate traffic.

You can have multiple aircraft cleared for visual approaches at
non-towered
fields.

I suppose this depends where one flies -- perhaps controller preference or
local letters of agreement have an effect?

I know at the unontrolled airports where I fly, I have never been able to
get even a visual approach clearance when another airplane is on approach
under IFR.

--
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com

"Bob Gardner" wrote in
news:5cN2c.197384$jk2.708530@attbi_s53:

With reference to using Mode C as a defacto report....

5-5-6 Exceptions
{New-2003-15 a. revised August 7, 2003}
a. Do not use Mode C to effect vertical separation with an
aircraft on a
cruise clearance, contact approach, or as specified in
paragraph 5-15-4, System Requirements, subparagraph e and
f.

Maybe not right on point, but a suggestion that
controller's do not necessarily buy a Mode C readout all
the time.

They may buy the Mode C readout, but they can't trust the
aircraft to stay at the altitude they're reading. A cruise
clearance permits descending and climbing at pilot's discretion.
We use it all the time in the Gulf of Mexico, for instrument
approaches where we can't talk to center once we start a
descent, or often at altitude. We don't often climb back up,
but we might if we lose comm with both center and our company
flight following, and have to climb to regain contact. On a
cruise clearance, the aircraft may either climb or descend,
without the controller having any control over it, thus he can't
rely on the altitude readout to separate traffic.

--
Regards,

Stan

"John Clonts" wrote in
:

1) "N7NZ, cleared direct BMQ cruise 7000". Do I report
subsequent descents? E.g. "leaving 7000 descending 5000"?
Then later "leaving 5000 descending 2000"?

No. The cruise clearance gives you everything between 7000' and
the surface. It's good practice to report leaving an altitude,
so ATC can use it, but it's not required. Once you report
leaving an altitude on a cruise clearance, you can't go back to
it.

2) Its VMC and I'm IFR to Temple, level at 5000. At 25
miles out I report Temple in sight. "N7NZ cleared visual
approach to Temple, remain this frequency til you're closer
in". At this point I may descend at will, right? When I
do decide to descend, do I report leaving 5000?

No. An approach clearance clears you for any altitude required
by the approach, including landing. A visual approach clearance
clears you to the ground.

3) I'm level at 7000. "N7NZ, descend 3000 pilots
discretion". Do I report my descent? Can I level off at
an intermediate altitude, and if so, do I eventually report
leaving that altitude?E.g. "leaving 7000 descending 5000"?
Then later "leaving 5000 descending 3000"?

You can descend from 7000' to 3000' whenever you're ready, but
you need to report when you do. You would report leaving 7000'
for 3000', and shouldn't stop at intermediate altitudes.

--
Regards,

Stan

Stan Gosnell wrote:



No. An approach clearance clears you for any altitude required
by the approach, including landing. A visual approach clearance
clears you to the ground.

An approach clearnace does not clear you to land. The tower has to
clear you to land, usually directly but they could relay a landing
clearance through approach control.

If you're speaking of a non-towered airport, landing clearances are
irrelevant.

"Richard Kaplan" wrote in message
s.com...

I suppose this depends where one flies --


No doubt, I was speaking of the US.

Stan Gosnell wrote:



No. An approach clearance clears you for any altitude required
by the approach, including landing. A visual approach clearance
clears you to the ground.


In that respect there is no difference between a visual approach and any
other type of approach.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
link.net...

No doubt, I was speaking of the US.

More like rural vs. urban US, mountainous vs. flat, busy vs. remote
airport, controlled by Center vs. Approach, etc.



--
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com

"Richard Kaplan" wrote in message
s.com...

More like rural vs. urban US, mountainous vs. flat, busy vs. remote
airport, controlled by Center vs. Approach, etc.


None of that matters, all operations are governed by the same order.