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Needed: Inexpensive AHRS module to work with Oudie, XCsoar, LK8000, etc...



 
 
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  #31  
Old April 29th 15, 08:45 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Mike the Strike
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Default Needed: Inexpensive AHRS module to work with Oudie, XCsoar,LK8000, etc...

Unfortunately (or fortunately!) clouds don't appear on igc files. It might be tough to discriminate between folks who fly though the wispies near cloud base (that is, most of us!) from those who take a few turns inside a cloud.

Mike
  #32  
Old April 29th 15, 09:24 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Andy Blackburn[_3_]
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Default Needed: Inexpensive AHRS module to work with Oudie, XCsoar,LK8000, etc...

On Wednesday, April 29, 2015 at 12:08:33 PM UTC-7, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
With all these new devices including the phone apps with glass cockpit, I wonder if the rules committee should just suspend anyone from SSA events for several years if they are cloud flying, instead of making contestants disable the AHRS in their butterfly or LX? Just a thought. I frankly think having a back up in case is a great idea, and I think it is exceptional stupid to intentionally illegally cloud fly in the USA without an IFR clearance. Any accident could seriously undermine all the other glider pilots. Years ago when I regularly flew out of Minden I heard many pilots talking about getting 24,000 feet or so in a thermal. I tried to speak with these pilots and explain the consequences of such mindlessness. All to no avail. I tried to get Larry Sanders to address this issue again to no avail.


It's been discussed within the RC and with a number of CDs. I've personally looked a flight log files and weather data for "suspicious flights". We are talking about a relatively fine line in terms of being able to line up glider altitudes, locations and time off of a flight log versus some sort of estimate of of the cloud base - at the same time and precise location. The cloud data is neither granular enough in terms of height and location nor cut finely enough in terms of time (clouds form and dissipate) to make any definitive determination as to whether a glider was IMC or in violation of FARs for cloud clearance or whatever metric you want to use. The exception might be egregious departures deep into significant clouds that are well established. This is the main scenario for gaining material competitive advantage versus running in and out of the wisps at cloudbase. In any event, if you fly in cloud and you get caught expect furious vengeance and application of penalties from the CD.

I will let the sleeping dog of cockpit video cameras lie.

9B

  #33  
Old April 29th 15, 09:57 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
kirk.stant
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Default Needed: Inexpensive AHRS module to work with Oudie, XCsoar,LK8000, etc...

On Wednesday, April 29, 2015 at 1:42:45 PM UTC-5, Andrzej Kobus wrote:

Kirk, I was lucky enough to receive excellent glider training including aerobatics and flying in clouds (all of it in Europe) and I have no problems with people who want to have good quality AHRS or turn and bank indicator installed in their gliders. Flying gliders in IMC is not easy and having a back up is not going to do any good to anyone without training.

What worries me is that someone suggests using LK8000 as an AHRS device.

Certified solid state AHRS go through comprehensive test scenarios. Modern AHRS is almost all software and as we know software has defects. There is no perfect software. There are just defects that are known and defects that are yet to be discovered.

Some suggestions here are good but some like $100-$200 solid state solution is just not realistic, while the sensors might be cheap a bullet proof software that uses these sensors is not. If I wanted to have a backup I would definitely spend the money on proper solid state AHRS. There are other considerations e.g. icing that can render some AHRS included in glider instruments useless if airspeed indication is lost. With modern slippery gliders flying without ASI due to icing could be all but impossible.

The quote below is from Karl's website. I often think about this quote when flying.

"We do not what we ought;
What we ought not, we do;
And lean upon the thought
That chance will bring us through."
(Matthew Arnold)

I am certainly afraid of people coming out of a cloud through the bottom in an uncontrollable way while I am there just because they ventured into the place they should not have been (as Evan said) encouraged by their great LX8000 AHRS backup.

Please note. LX8000 is great software, but it never was intended to be used as AHRS no even in emergency.

Regards,
AK


AK, I totally agree about a GPS-based solution like LK8000. And also agree that in order to legally (and safely) fly in clouds, a glider needs to be equipped with approved instruments - and the pilot properly trained to use them.

And I also do not intentionally put myself into an IMC situation with my (no-gyro)LS6 because I have a healthy respect for what would happen if I lost a horizon reference!

BUT - If there was an inexpensive "toy" that could possibly save my life, would I get it? Why not? I don't plan on using it (might be fun to play with on a boring VFR day) but if, for some unknown (and probably stupid) reason, I suddenly REALLY NEEDED IT, then it might just save my glider (or even my life). If it doesn't work, I'm no worse off and will probably end up using the chute. But if it does work....

Anyway, at the rate these things are going, something like a Dynon will probably be available at a reasonable cost pretty soon...

Cheers,

Kirk

  #34  
Old April 30th 15, 01:59 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
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Default Needed: Inexpensive AHRS module to work with Oudie, XCsoar, LK8000,etc...

Keep your airspeed indicator and altimeter and replace your mechanical
variometer with the Dynon D2. Problem solved!

On 4/29/2015 11:06 AM, kirk.stant wrote:
On Wednesday, April 29, 2015 at 9:48:12 AM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Wednesday, April 29, 2015 at 6:32:08 AM UTC-4, wrote:
Dynon has a very good answer: http://www.dynonavionics.com/docs/PocketPanel.html.

To meet Kirk's request for integration with moving map...
The D2 integrates wirelessly with several 3rd party apps so a programming API exists. Whether Dynon would make the API available to glider App developers (like the XCSoar team) is unknown.

On Wednesday, April 29, 2015 at 10:15:51 AM UTC-4, Tango Whisky wrote:
Until the main fuse blows.

The Dynon allows you to tie into the main DC supply, but it also contains an internal battery with 4-6 hours of juice. I suspect that there is a fail over mechanism.

The Stratus2 AHRS https://www.foreflight.com/products/stratus/ requires an 'Ipad' but it also offers Synthetic Vision and ADS weather (not offered on the D2.

The Dynon is nice (I've flown one in a friends Mooney), but remember that the speed is GPS based; in a wave situation that could get interesting! If I flew wave and wanted a full time AI it would be high on my list. The Stratus is real close, if it was supported in my Oudie2 I would take a real hard look at it!

Kirk


--
Dan Marotta

  #35  
Old April 30th 15, 02:05 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
kirk.stant
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Default Needed: Inexpensive AHRS module to work with Oudie, XCsoar,LK8000, etc...

On Wednesday, April 29, 2015 at 7:59:17 PM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
Keep your airspeed indicator and altimeter and replace your
mechanical variometer with the Dynon D2.* Problem solved!


Dan, I haven't had a mechanical vario in my cockpit for 14 years!

And getting stuck in a lennie is not a big problem out here in the midwest! So I'll just continue to comply with the FARs and wait for something I can afford.

Kirk
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