Catastrophic Decompression; Small Place Solo

Would you mind keeping your gratuitous comments on the obvious to yourself?

Jim



shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

-Yes, carbon fiber is an excellent RF absorber, particularly at GPS
-frequencies.

Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

"Scott M. Kozel" wrote in message
...
"Ralph Nesbitt" wrote:

"Scott M. Kozel" wrote:
"Ralph Nesbitt" wrote:

The structure of an A/C is designed to flex, expand, & contract as
the A/C
goes thru pressurization/de-pressurization cycles.

There are a few places a "Very High Velocity Bullet" of large
caliber could
possibly exit the external skin if it the internal point of impact
was at a
"very specific angle, very close to 90 degrees to external skin" if
fired
from close range internally. Consider all the materials described
above a
bullet would have to impact/penetrate, without its path being
diverted by
some degree of ricochet.

Really? I saw a movie in the 1960s where a guy with a .38 revolver
tried to shoot another pax on an airliner (I think it was a DC-7), and
he missed and the slug went through the cabin wall and hit an engine
and
set it on fire. :-]

Was that the 1 with the promotion for "Scenic Florida Vacation Property
at
+/- 2' sea level" as a "Promotional Trailer"?

It happened on a flight from San Francisco to Hawaii. :-)

Saw the movie of trip between or flt segment in movie?
Ralph Nesbitt
Professional FD/CFR/ARFF Type

"khobar" wrote in message
news:%T1Jb.16822$7D3.7011@fed1read02...
C J Campbell wrote in message
...
Most movies use physics from an alternate universe. Bullets flash when
they
hit things (even wood!). People outrun shock waves from explosions. The
MAC
10 holds an infinite amount of ammo. You can poison a whole airplane by
contaminating the pressurization and/or the oxygen system.
Alternatively,
the airplane pressurization will keep a plane filled with air even under
water. Small aircraft routinely outclimb and run into airliners.

As for Goldfinger, I suppose he *could* have hit the elevator and jammed
it
when he was sucked out. But, really, why let the facts get in the way of
a
good story?


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3039583.stm

An interesting take on the situation especially in light of the fact that
there has been a case of a cabin window being shattered by engine debris
resulting in a PAX being blown out through that window.

Paul Nixon

The "Ballistics Profile" of the most powerful hand gun "Pales in
comparison/is infatisimal compared to that of debris from an "Uncontained
Engine Failure".
Ralph Nesbitt
Professional FD/CFR/ARFF Type

Jerry Hall wrote in message ...
John. It seems that once you move from oral medication to insulin as a
treatment for diabetes, that is the death knell to one's medical
certificate. Lord knows I've certainly jumped through a lot of hoops.
Several years ago the FAA medical folks as much as said, "Give it up,
turkey. You're not getting your medical reinstated." I go through a
similar line of BS in keeping my automobile driver's license. And my
glucose readings seldom go over 140. Have been hoping the newer "Sport"
license might allow me to fly again. Then there are ultralights but
that just isn't quite the same thing. To steal a line from Top Gun, I
feel the need for speed. Had a 177 RG. Jerry

Jerry,

That's how it used to be, but no more. I got mine back and I take
injections twice a day. Your blood sugars have to be between 100-300
thirty minutes prior to flight, and checked every two hours during
flight. Though I have to admit that if the Sport certification comes
through soon it'll probably be easier, and defiantely be cheaper, to
go that route.

Best of Luck,
John


John E. Carty wrote:
"Jerry Hall" wrote in message
...

When I conducted my first solo flight, it was pretty much a non-event
except that I had the plane to myself. After about thirty minutes of
dual - read that as two of us in the airplane, student (me) and the
instructor - including several landings at a controlled (has a tower)
airport, the instructor had me taxi over to the base of the tower and shut
the airplane down. He then asked for my log book and scribbled an
endorsement in the back certifying that I was qualified for solo flight.
Mind you, I had already received ten hours of flight training up to that
point plus extensive text work as well. He then told me to keep the
airplane "in the pattern", i.e. don't leave the controlled airspace
surrounding the airport: approximately a five mile radius. I was then to
perform three "touch and goes" - landings in which you place the airplane
on the runway but do not come to a stop but rather retract the flaps while
still rolling, apply power, and takeoff again. Then I was to land with a
full stop and return to the tower. He said he would watch with the
controllers. Geez, now I had an audience. I contacted the tower via
radio and was given clearance to takeoff and stay in the pattern. I
remembered I was literally shaking, not with fear but with exhilaration.
"Don't screw this up, don't screw this up," was my mantra. I advanced the
throttle once I was positioned on the centerline of the runway and, in my
estimation, the little Cessna 152 leapt forward, unencumbered by the
weight of a second person. Reaching 50 knots, I gently pulled back on the
yoke and the plane rotated and departed the runway. "WOW! I was flying!
Really flying! I was in control! I am a pilot!"
It was all I could do to not start whistling the theme from "The High and
the Mighty." The rest is history.


Many hundreds and hundreds of flight hours (PIC or Pilot In Command) later
and innummerable aircraft, I find myself grounded due to diabetes.


Have you thought about getting a special issuance (if your diabetes is under
fairly good control) to get your medical back and start flying again? :-)


Nothing will ever quite compare to that first solo flight. God I miss it.
Jerry


Aviation wrote:

I have two questions inspired by Hollywood movies.

In the movies (Goldfinger, Executive Decision and so on), when
pressurized aircraft suffer catastrophic decompression
at high (25000+ feet) altitude (usually when the bad guy shoots a bullet
through a window) everything not tied down gets sucked out of the plane
and the aircraft goes into an immediate, rapid nose dive and the pilots
or the good guys have to struggle to level it off or prevent a crash. Is
this an automatic "safety" feature of real, regular aircraft? On the one
hand, passengers need to get denser air to breathe but large aircraft
have oxygen masks that drop down. (I could do some rough estimates that
the average fat slob can hold their breath for less than a minute so,
without masks, the jet
would have to go from let's say 30000 feet to 5000 feet in 30-45 seconds.
My ears would explode.)

I would think that a crash dive to a lower altitude could be even more
dangerous such as if it occurred in a crowded air corridor. Maybe there
are other dangers.

What REALLY happens (or is supposed to happen) in the event
of sudden decompression of real high flying aircraft? The second
Hollywood inspired question comes from Executive
Decision (1996). The main character is taking flying lessons
in a single prop 2-seater plane and lands. The plane is still
running (on the ground) and his instructor says, 'I think you're ready to
solo' and gets out. The main character starts to taxi and then other
non-flying plot developments happen. I was wondering if taking your
FIRST solo flight is that simple. The location in the film in
Washington, DC but I figure all
US flying is FAA regulated. Wouldn't the first time soloist have to fill
out some forms, file a flight plan with the airport and maybe even do a
complete pre-flight check on the aircraft? Is the simplified movie solo
flight completely bogus or could it happen that way?


THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

"Ralph Nesbitt" wrote in message
gy.com...

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
hlink.net...

"Ralph Nesbitt" wrote in message
m...
Hopefully all realize when referring to "Air Pressure" at altitude
this
is
an "absolute" pressure value inside the fuselage irrespective of
ambient.
When referring to air pressures at ground level the pressure reading
is
above unadjusted ambient barometric pressure.

This is incorrect, pressurization is the differential between ambient
and
cabin preasure.

Mike
MU-2

Please reconsider your statement above as it applies to pressurization of
A/C cabins at altitude.

At altitude A/C cabins are like a pressure vessel. A/C cabins are
pressurized to maintain ~ 12 PSI Gauge, ~ the same as normal atmospheric
pressure @ 11,000' ASL, in the cabin irrespective of altitude above
11,000'
ASL.
Ralph Nesbitt
Professional FD/CFR/ARFF Type

No, the cabin is not at a constant preasure above 11,000' (and the number
that you are looking for is 8,000') unless the rate controller is set to a
rate greater than the climb rate of the aircraft (which is never done). If
what you say were true then the cabin altitude would not climb with the
airplane above 11,000' (8,000') which it clearly does. If you doubt this,
go buy an altimeter watch and see for yourself. Or you could buy a
pressurized airplane.

Mike
MU-2

I believe C J Campbell posted he could find only 1 reference to an explosive
decompression incident involveing commercial pax A/C.

The following, in no particular order are explosive decompression incidents
occuring over the past ~ 35 years in no particular order.

Several incidents involveing early DC-10's due a "Door Design Problem". 1
catastrophic incident involved Turkish Airlines in/over France. Another IRC
involved a NW Airlines A/C near Detroit that made a sucessful landing.

The pressure bulkhead of a 747 blew out in/over Japan with catastrophic
consequences.

A 737 on an inter island flight lost a section of it's top near Hawaii.

While military, another incident of note was the catastrophic crash of a C-5
carrying "Orphans" as it departed Saigon in the early 70's due explosive
decompression when the rear pressure door locks failed.

I apologize for not folowing the post in the thread, but MS OLE decided the
post in ? should disapear by "Crashing" my computer as I was responding.
Ralph Nesbitt
Professional FD/CFR/ARFF Type

"Ralph Nesbitt" wrote:

"Scott M. Kozel" wrote:
"Ralph Nesbitt" wrote:
"Scott M. Kozel" wrote:

Really? I saw a movie in the 1960s where a guy with a .38 revolver
tried to shoot another pax on an airliner (I think it was a DC-7), and
he missed and the slug went through the cabin wall and hit an engine and
set it on fire. :-]

Was that the 1 with the promotion for "Scenic Florida Vacation Property at
+/- 2' sea level" as a "Promotional Trailer"?

It happened on a flight from San Francisco to Hawaii. :-)

Saw the movie of trip between or flt segment in movie?

This happened in the movie. Allright, someone please help me remember
the name of the movie!

I can't vouch for the exact caliber of the gun, but it looked like the
standard police special revolver of that era, which would have been a
..38 Special caliber.

After the engine fire burned awhile, the top of one of the cylinders
blew off, and then the flash of fuel detonation kept coming out with a
whomp!-whomp!-whomp!-whomp!-whomp!-whomp!-whomp!-whomp! It was at night
of course, and I'm not sure whether the crew eventually managed to
feather the prop and stop the engine.

"Scott M. Kozel" wrote in message
...
"Ralph Nesbitt" wrote:

"Scott M. Kozel" wrote:
"Ralph Nesbitt" wrote:
"Scott M. Kozel" wrote:

Really? I saw a movie in the 1960s where a guy with a .38
revolver
tried to shoot another pax on an airliner (I think it was a DC-7),
and
he missed and the slug went through the cabin wall and hit an
engine and
set it on fire. :-]

Was that the 1 with the promotion for "Scenic Florida Vacation
Property at
+/- 2' sea level" as a "Promotional Trailer"?

It happened on a flight from San Francisco to Hawaii. :-)

Saw the movie of trip between or flt segment in movie?

This happened in the movie. Allright, someone please help me remember
the name of the movie!

I can't vouch for the exact caliber of the gun, but it looked like the
standard police special revolver of that era, which would have been a
.38 Special caliber.

After the engine fire burned awhile, the top of one of the cylinders
blew off, and then the flash of fuel detonation kept coming out with a
whomp!-whomp!-whomp!-whomp!-whomp!-whomp!-whomp!-whomp! It was at night
of course, and I'm not sure whether the crew eventually managed to
feather the prop and stop the engine.
Ah the wonders of "Hollywood"
Ralph Nesbitt
Professional FD/CFR/ARFF Type

"Ralph Nesbitt" wrote:

"Scott M. Kozel" wrote:
"Ralph Nesbitt" wrote:
"Scott M. Kozel" wrote:
"Ralph Nesbitt" wrote:
"Scott M. Kozel" wrote:

Really? I saw a movie in the 1960s where a guy with a .38 revolver
tried to shoot another pax on an airliner (I think it was a DC-7), and
he missed and the slug went through the cabin wall and hit an engine and
set it on fire. :-]

Was that the 1 with the promotion for "Scenic Florida Vacation Property at
+/- 2' sea level" as a "Promotional Trailer"?

It happened on a flight from San Francisco to Hawaii. :-)

Saw the movie of trip between or flt segment in movie?

This happened in the movie. Allright, someone please help me remember
the name of the movie!

I can't vouch for the exact caliber of the gun, but it looked like the
standard police special revolver of that era, which would have been a
.38 Special caliber.

After the engine fire burned awhile, the top of one of the cylinders
blew off, and then the flash of fuel detonation kept coming out with a
whomp!-whomp!-whomp!-whomp!-whomp!-whomp!-whomp!-whomp! It was at night
of course, and I'm not sure whether the crew eventually managed to
feather the prop and stop the engine.

Ah the wonders of "Hollywood"

Hee hee! If the guy had fired an M-1 service rifle, then I might think
that significant damage to the engine might have occurred.

*David CL Francis wrote:

The nearest case I can find a record of is the 747-122 N44713U incident
on February 24, 1989.

That was a very big hole!


Yes, it was:

http://dnausers.d-n-a.net/dnetGOjg/240289.gif

--
Thomas