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Jonker JS-3 in Sagebrush



 
 
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  #31  
Old April 20th 19, 05:23 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dave Nadler
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Default Jonker JS-3 in Sagebrush

On Friday, April 19, 2019 at 8:02:17 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
...I thought all gliders were like that.


Absolutely not...
Ads
  #32  
Old April 21st 19, 12:44 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
waremark
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Default Jonker JS-3 in Sagebrush

Why dump the flaps in the ASH 26 which raises the ailerons in landing flap to maintain aileron control until stopped? In my ASH 26 I always left the flaps in L until stopped whereas in my Arcus I change to negative to maintain aileron control until stopped. The spoilers lower when I let go.
  #33  
Old April 23rd 19, 12:21 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
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Default Jonker JS-3 in Sagebrush

waremark wrote on 4/20/2019 4:44 PM:
Why dump the flaps in the ASH 26 which raises the ailerons in landing flap to maintain aileron control until stopped? In my ASH 26 I always left the flaps in L until stopped whereas in my Arcus I change to negative to maintain aileron control until stopped. The spoilers lower when I let go.

I've tried what you do, and don't like it as much as moving to flap 2. I want to
reduce of the wing lift (reduce gust sensitivity) and put weight on the tail
wheel (better steering in a cross wind). Aileron control is excellent in flap 2
(first negative flap setting), very good even in 3 (neutral).

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/...anes-2014A.pdf
  #34  
Old April 23rd 19, 12:29 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
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Default Jonker JS-3 in Sagebrush

Wyll Surf Air wrote on 4/16/2019 10:49 AM:
"After 16 years flying the ASW-27, muscle memory was involved. On downwind, the dive brakes were used to adjust appropriate pattern altitude starting from a high pattern entry from overhead, then somewhere on downwind the brakes were lastly put away. But, apparently not put away properly. The JS3 has several detent stops for holding the dive brake open at partial positions whereas the ASW-27 has only one detent at the closed and locked position. "

My question is why was there need to put the dive brakes away in the first place? From my understanding and initial training, the ideal way to fly a pattern is with the dive brakes halfway deployed. Obviously, there will be adjustments to the dive brakes to account for lift, sink, wind.... but at least partial dive brakes should be used throughout the pattern as to make the glide angle in the pattern steep enough to account for the previously mentioned factors. If this is the case then why was there need to put away the brakes on downwind? Is this differences in training, lack of foresight, or just habit?

Not trying to critique the pilot just trying to understand the scenario so I can avoid doing a similar thing.


I rarely use the brakes before I turn final. That way, my turns to base and final
are higher than using brakes all the way through the pattern. Perhaps you mean use
brakes when you past the end of the runway, a few seconds before turning base?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/...anes-2014A.pdf
  #35  
Old April 23rd 19, 01:57 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Default Jonker JS-3 in Sagebrush

On Tuesday, April 16, 2019 at 1:49:53 PM UTC-4, Wyll Surf Air wrote:
"After 16 years flying the ASW-27, muscle memory was involved. On downwind, the dive brakes were used to adjust appropriate pattern altitude starting from a high pattern entry from overhead, then somewhere on downwind the brakes were lastly put away. But, apparently not put away properly. The JS3 has several detent stops for holding the dive brake open at partial positions whereas the ASW-27 has only one detent at the closed and locked position. "

My question is why was there need to put the dive brakes away in the first place? From my understanding and initial training, the ideal way to fly a pattern is with the dive brakes halfway deployed. Obviously, there will be adjustments to the dive brakes to account for lift, sink, wind.... but at least partial dive brakes should be used throughout the pattern as to make the glide angle in the pattern steep enough to account for the previously mentioned factors. If this is the case then why was there need to put away the brakes on downwind? Is this differences in training, lack of foresight, or just habit?

Not trying to critique the pilot just trying to understand the scenario so I can avoid doing a similar thing.


The complication comes when you want to change flap settings and you have the brakes out. In many gliders, if you let go of the spoiler handle to change from thermal flap to landing flap, the airbrakes suck full open. If you don't notice this things start to go wrong quickly.
Some manuals say to select landing flap only when you have the field made so likely on final you might have to close the brakes and then select landing flap.
It is easy to run out of hands.
UH
  #36  
Old April 23rd 19, 01:06 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Default Jonker JS-3 in Sagebrush

Maybe the airbrake lever detents should be shaped so that unintentional extension is impossible, while closing may still be performed simply by pushing the lever forwards. Think saw-tooth dents in the appropriate direction.

If they're cut with this shape, I'd take a metal file to them.

Aldo Cernezzi
www.voloavela.it

  #37  
Old April 23rd 19, 01:07 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Default Jonker JS-3 in Sagebrush

Il giorno martedì 23 aprile 2019 14:06:14 UTC+2, ha scritto:
Maybe the airbrake lever detents should be shaped so that unintentional extension is impossible, while closing may still be performed simply by pushing the lever forwards. Think saw-tooth dents in the appropriate direction.

If they aren't cut with this shape, I'd take a metal file to them.

Aldo Cernezzi
www.voloavela.it


  #38  
Old April 23rd 19, 01:08 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 5
Default Jonker JS-3 in Sagebrush

Maybe the airbrake lever detents should be shaped so that unintentional extension is impossible, while closing may still be performed simply by pushing the lever forwards. Think saw-tooth dents in the appropriate direction.

If they aren't cut with this shape, I'd take a metal file to them.

Aldo Cernezzi
www.voloavela.it
 




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