Compass Correction Card

On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 19:27:47 -0800 (PST), Andy
wrote:

On Jan 22, 8:04*pm, "Morgans" wrote:
wrote

If compass is perfect, I've been told by my IA, no correction card is
required.
Find a fed that will buy that!

Prolly' wouldn't. *Just put all zeros on a correction card.
--
Jim in NC

I think you are all missing the point.

If no compass is required there cannot be a requirement for a
correction card.

Wouldn't be too sure about that. I believe a non-required instrument
which is not functioning properly (which might well include an
uncorrected compass) must be covered up or removed. A power club I
once belonged to ran into that, being forced to remove a failed DG
from a VFR-only airplane.

rj

jcarlyle wrote:
At least for my LS8-18, the feds can get you another way - a compass
is on the Minimum Equipment List. So my glider is required to have a
"magnetic direction indicator".

No. That is not what the minimum equipment list means.

Only a government agency could come up with something like this: A
Minimum Equipment List (MEL) is an FAA approved list of instruments that
may be *defective* and still have the aircraft to be considered airworthy.

See section 6.p
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/13c094a06437c5fa862569d900744d86/$FILE/Chap1-2.pdf

Tony V LS6-b "6N"

On Jan 23, 11:02 pm, Tony V wrote:
jcarlyle wrote:
At least for my LS8-18, the feds can get you another way - a compass
is on the Minimum Equipment List. So my glider is required to have a
"magnetic direction indicator".

No. That is not what the minimum equipment list means.

Only a government agency could come up with something like this: A
Minimum Equipment List (MEL) is an FAA approved list of instruments that
may be *defective* and still have the aircraft to be considered airworthy.

See section 6.phttp://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular...

Tony V LS6-b "6N"

I see what you mean, Tony - that FAA definition is indeed perverted!
Two questions for you:

1) A magnetic compass is on the LS8 MEL, which seems to indicate that
you have to physically have a compass in the aircraft. Does AC 91-67
allow you put a placard over a blank hole saying "compass inoperative"
and fly with no compass until the next condition inspection?

2) Under the "Additionally for Cloud Flying" paragraph of the LS8 MEL
a turn and bank indicator is listed. Does AC 91-67 imply that I can
placard a T&B "inoperative" in 1/8" high letters and go look at the
interior of clouds (disregarding for the moment that it isn't legal to
fly a glider in clouds in the US)?

-John

Only a government agency could come up with something like this: A
Minimum Equipment List (MEL) is an FAA approved list of instruments that
may be *defective* and still have the aircraft to be considered airworthy.

See section 6.phttp://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular...

Tony V LS6-b "6N"

I see what you mean, Tony - that FAA definition is indeed perverted!
Two questions for you:

You'll have to ask an IA for those questions, unfortunately.

1) A magnetic compass is on the LS8 MEL, which seems to indicate that
you have to physically have a compass in the aircraft. Does AC 91-67
allow you put a placard over a blank hole saying "compass inoperative"
and fly with no compass until the next condition inspection?

2) Under the "Additionally for Cloud Flying" paragraph of the LS8 MEL
a turn and bank indicator is listed. Does AC 91-67 imply that I can
placard a T&B "inoperative" in 1/8" high letters and go look at the
interior of clouds (disregarding for the moment that it isn't legal to
fly a glider in clouds in the US)?

It's really very unusual for a glider to even have an MEL. I'm not sure
that the point (advantage) of one is.

Tony

Tony V wrote:
Only a government agency could come up with something like this: A
Minimum Equipment List (MEL) is an FAA approved list of instruments that
may be *defective* and still have the aircraft to be considered airworthy.

See section 6.phttp://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular...

Tony V LS6-b "6N"

I see what you mean, Tony - that FAA definition is indeed perverted!
Two questions for you:

You'll have to ask an IA for those questions, unfortunately.

1) A magnetic compass is on the LS8 MEL, which seems to indicate that
you have to physically have a compass in the aircraft. Does AC 91-67
allow you put a placard over a blank hole saying "compass inoperative"
and fly with no compass until the next condition inspection?

2) Under the "Additionally for Cloud Flying" paragraph of the LS8 MEL
a turn and bank indicator is listed. Does AC 91-67 imply that I can
placard a T&B "inoperative" in 1/8" high letters and go look at the
interior of clouds (disregarding for the moment that it isn't legal to
fly a glider in clouds in the US)?

It's really very unusual for a glider to even have an MEL. I'm not sure
that the point (advantage) of one is.

Tony

I wonder if the LS8 having a MEL isn't a result of translation. I'd
bet that the Germans are using MEL in the normal sense (ie, you must
have these things in order to fly, but can add more if you want)
instead of the FAA sense (ie, you can fly without these things if some
don't work - just label them inoperative).

-John

On Jan 24, 7:54*am, jcarlyle wrote:


I wonder if the LS8 having a MEL isn't a result of translation. I'd
bet that the Germans are using MEL in the normal sense (ie, you must
have these things in order to fly, but can add more if you want)

I'd agree with that. My 28 manual refers to "minimum equipment" but
this is not intended in the context of the very specific "Minimum
Equipment List" which typically (at least in my experience) only
applies to larger transport category aircraft.

Andy

I wonder if the LS8 having a MEL isn't a result of translation. I'd
bet that the Germans are using MEL in the normal sense (ie, you must
have these things in order to fly, but can add more if you want)
instead of the FAA sense (ie, you can fly without these things if some
don't work - just label them inoperative).

The MEL for my ship doesn't quite agree between the flight manual and
the TCDS. However the magnetic compass is listed in both.


My LS1f flight manual MEL:

airspeed indicator
altimeter
magnetic compass
seat belt and shoulder harness
cushion or parachute
checklist
load and performance placard
flight manual

additionally for cloud flying:
turn and bank indicator -or- artificial horizon
variometer



MEL from the TCDS (G35EU):

1. non-cloud flying
airspeed indicator
altimeter
magnetic compass

2. cloud flying
turn and slip
variometer

3. LBA approved flight manual

On Jan 24, 7:42*am, jcarlyle wrote:

2) Under the "Additionally for Cloud Flying" paragraph of the LS8 MEL
a turn and bank indicator is listed. Does AC 91-67 imply that I can
placard a T&B "inoperative" in 1/8" high letters and go look at the
interior of clouds (disregarding for the moment that it isn't legal to
fly a glider in clouds in the US)?

-John

Actually, if the glider is properly equipped, and the pilot is
qualified, it is totally legal to fly in clouds in the US - you just
have to have an IFR clearance if it's in controlled airspace. Not
common, but I know of at least one Nimbus 3 driver who does it down in
Florida.

Theoretically, there are some bits of uncontrolled airspace in the
West where you could fly IMC (equipped and qualified, of course)
without a clearance - but they are pretty hard to find!

This has been discussed previously on RAS, I believe.

Meanwhile, I have a nice pretty compass card in my cockpit, just for
grins (I actually swung the compass one non-soarable day). Don't use
it, though...

Kirk
66

I direct your attention to page 2-7 of the Dec 2001 LS8-18 Flight
Manual. In Section 2.10 Minimum Equipment List, it states "Magnetic
Compass. Under the following paragraph Additonally for Cloud Flying it
states "Compass".

I doubt I'll receive an apology...

You doubt correctly. Im my flight manual (the original German one), I
read on page 2-11 (not 2-7) (ad hoc translated by me):

Minimal equipment: airspeed indicator, altimeter, thermometer, radio.
(But *no* compass.)

Additional minimal equipment for cloud flying: turn indicator, compass,
vario.

So there's something fishy with your manual. And yes, no apologies.

... (disregarding for the moment that it isn't legal to
fly a glider in clouds in the US)

It is perfecly legal even in the USA, provided you have the required
qualifications. This has been discussed here many times.