Open Class

I have been away from soaring for 12 years and have noticed the open class now has long wing and much shorter wing birds (JS-1C) competing. I am curious how do the 21 and 23 meter new ships keep up with the ASW-22BL's and Nimbus-4's. Are the new shorter wing gliders better overall (better L/D, better penetration ) or just better on strong days when wing loading counts more than the ability to stay in the air?

On Friday, February 13, 2015 at 7:29:03 PM UTC-5, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
I have been away from soaring for 12 years and have noticed the open class now has long wing and much shorter wing birds (JS-1C) competing. I am curious how do the 21 and 23 meter new ships keep up with the ASW-22BL's and Nimbus-4's. Are the new shorter wing gliders better overall (better L/D, better penetration ) or just better on strong days when wing loading counts more than the ability to stay in the air?

I think a lot depends on where you"re flying. Strong conditions may favor higher wing loading, weaker prefers lighter wing loading/higher aspect ratio..

On Friday, February 13, 2015 at 8:11:29 PM UTC-6, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
On Friday, February 13, 2015 at 7:29:03 PM UTC-5, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
I have been away from soaring for 12 years and have noticed the open class now has long wing and much shorter wing birds (JS-1C) competing. I am curious how do the 21 and 23 meter new ships keep up with the ASW-22BL's and Nimbus-4's. Are the new shorter wing gliders better overall (better L/D, better penetration ) or just better on strong days when wing loading counts more than the ability to stay in the air?

I think a lot depends on where you"re flying. Strong conditions may favor higher wing loading, weaker prefers lighter wing loading/higher aspect ratio.

the JS-1C seems to have done pretty well and run with "the big boys" at both Uvalde 2012 and Leszno 2014.

http://soaringspot.com/wgc20112/resu...ay-by-day.html

http://soaringspot.com/leszno2014/re...ay-by-day.html

On Friday, February 13, 2015 at 6:42:17 PM UTC-8, Tony wrote:
On Friday, February 13, 2015 at 8:11:29 PM UTC-6, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
On Friday, February 13, 2015 at 7:29:03 PM UTC-5, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
I have been away from soaring for 12 years and have noticed the open class now has long wing and much shorter wing birds (JS-1C) competing. I am curious how do the 21 and 23 meter new ships keep up with the ASW-22BL's and Nimbus-4's. Are the new shorter wing gliders better overall (better L/D, better penetration ) or just better on strong days when wing loading counts more than the ability to stay in the air?

I think a lot depends on where you"re flying. Strong conditions may favor higher wing loading, weaker prefers lighter wing loading/higher aspect ratio.

the JS-1C seems to have done pretty well and run with "the big boys" at both Uvalde 2012 and Leszno 2014.

http://soaringspot.com/wgc20112/resu...ay-by-day.html

http://soaringspot.com/leszno2014/re...ay-by-day.html

My (limited) understanding is that span loading is a significant factor. If you can make a lighter glider with a high aspect ratio, the span can be reduced as the weight is reduced without sacrificing un-ballasted performance. With a smaller wing area the wing loading can be increased without busting the overall weight limit for the class.

I know of at least one pilot that has passed on the Quintus or EB-29 to go with the JS-1c. As a Nimbus3 driver I can't help but be envious of the lighter empty weight, shorter span, better handling that comes with better performance to boot.

Cheers,
Craig 7Q

On Saturday, February 14, 2015 at 1:29:03 PM UTC+13, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
I have been away from soaring for 12 years and have noticed the open
class now has long wing and much shorter wing birds (JS-1C) competing.
I am curious how do the 21 and 23 meter new ships keep up with the
ASW-22BL's and Nimbus-4's. Are the new shorter wing gliders better
overall (better L/D, better penetration )

If you look at the polars, those old long wing gliders have amazing glide angles at 55 knots, but they lose badly to the new thin airfoils at high speed.


or just better on strong days when wing loading counts more than the
ability to stay in the air?

Yes, exactly, where "strong days" means anything over 1 or 1.5 knot climbs.

On Saturday, 14 February 2015 00:29:03 UTC, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
I have been away from soaring for 12 years and have noticed the open class now has long wing and much shorter wing birds (JS-1C) competing. I am curious how do the 21 and 23 meter new ships keep up with the ASW-22BL's and Nimbus-4's. Are the new shorter wing gliders better overall (better L/D, better penetration ) or just better on strong days when wing loading counts more than the ability to stay in the air?



Of the long winged gliders the EB29 clearly outperforms the 22 and Nimbus 4.. I have no idea how good the ASH30 is. Claimed best L/D for the EB29 is 68, for the JS1C 21 is 60.

The best L/D of a glider is a meaningless number. It is just one point on the polar, and plus, it is at a point that we rarely fly. A better question is what is the L/D at 100 knots (185 km/h)? It's an even better question if we assume high wing loadings. Ultra long wings are only better above the plains in very weak conditions.

Chris

On Saturday, February 14, 2015 at 7:49:43 AM UTC-5, Fox Two wrote:
The best L/D of a glider is a meaningless number. It is just one point on the polar, and plus, it is at a point that we rarely fly. A better question is what is the L/D at 100 knots (185 km/h)? It's an even better question if we assume high wing loadings. Ultra long wings are only better above the plains in very weak conditions.

Chris

Really? When thermals die it is all that matters.

The smaller the wing (area, not span), the bigger the relative drag of the fuselage becomes.

On that note, what happened to the 18 meter Diana II that was rumored to come out?

I had read where SH is no longer publishing polars for it's gliders. Anyone know the true polars of the JS1-C, Quintus and/or Anteres 23. Has any club or organization started doing the glide test that Dick Johnson for so many years provided the gliding community. I have been away from gliding for a while, much has changed. I have much time in Nimbus 4, Nimbus 4D, Nimbus 3D. I assume the shorter wing birds could get much more out of the thermal, but I would think the long wing birds would be better at dolphin flying. Any comments. Would love to hear from pilots that have flown in or against the shorter wing open versus the longer wing opens.