Glider Cross-country signoff & FARs

In discussions with other US glider pilots recently, and based on a
quick search of the FARs, I believe that US pilots with PPL-Glider
rating do not need any endorsements or sign-off to go cross country.
If anyone knows differently, let me know.

Before there's lots of advice to get training, fly dual x-c, etc - I
agree, and am not talking about what is the appropriate training. I
just want to verify that a PPL-G includes x-c priveledges. Of course,
clubs and rentals have their own sets of rules.

"Jamey Jacobs" wrote in message
om...
In discussions with other US glider pilots recently, and based on a
quick search of the FARs, I believe that US pilots with PPL-Glider
rating do not need any endorsements or sign-off to go cross country.
If anyone knows differently, let me know.

Perhaps Judy will confirm, but the only cross country endorsement I
know of pertains to student pilots, a PPL needs no further permission to go
cross country. That said, cross country training is highly recommended.

There are many things that a PPL can do without permission or further
training that may not be a good idea,

Vaughn

In article ,
Jamey Jacobs wrote:
In discussions with other US glider pilots recently, and based on a
quick search of the FARs, I believe that US pilots with PPL-Glider
rating do not need any endorsements or sign-off to go cross country.
If anyone knows differently, let me know.

Before there's lots of advice to get training, fly dual x-c, etc - I
agree, and am not talking about what is the appropriate training. I
just want to verify that a PPL-G includes x-c priveledges. Of course,
clubs and rentals have their own sets of rules.

Jamey,

Correct. The PPL-glider has no X-C restrictions. Whether X-C
is safe for this person is entirely up to them. I personally
think that the Silver badge is fun, and if one can fly for 5+
hours then one can likely achieve the distance for X-C (30+ NM).
Finding and landing at an airport you've never seen before
is the biggest challenge for brand new pilots.

Of course you can always drive to the prospective landing spot and
see if the runway is wide enough/where the taxiways are, etc. Or
you can fly there in a powered airplane. I scouted all of
my landouts before I used any of them.

From there, if you want to be extra cautious, just take a high
tow. At Avenal, for $100, one can get a 10,000 ft tow and
with the typical 15 knot tailwind, fly to Lost Hills airport
as a final glide (with a lot of safety margin). With an $80
GPS on board, it would be hard to miss the destination airport...

I did my first dozen cross-country glider flights solo
(but I did have a PPL-airplane first). I spent a lot of time
on the ground planning and talking to other pilots and
marking the map with landouts and scouting the landouts
though. What you do depends a lot on what glider, what conditions,
what terrain, what skills you have, etc. However you do
it, good luck!

(Jamey Jacobs) wrote
In discussions with other US glider pilots recently, and based on a
quick search of the FARs, I believe that US pilots with PPL-Glider
rating do not need any endorsements or sign-off to go cross country.

You are correct. A pilot in the US is presumed competent for glider
XC on the day he gets his private glider.

Michael

Correct. The PPL-glider has no X-C restrictions. Whether X-C
is safe for this person is entirely up to them. I personally
think that the Silver badge is fun, and if one can fly for 5+
hours then one can likely achieve the distance for X-C (30+ NM).
Finding and landing at an airport you've never seen before
is the biggest challenge for brand new pilots.


If you do Silver X-C in anything more than a 1-26.. you're cheating..

BT

Your 10,000 ft tow would invalidate your 59.02 km flight to Lost Hills. The
1% rule is below.

From the SSA site:
For flights of less than 100 km, the loss of height between the Start
altitude,(release from tow or altitude at the Start Point) and the Finish
altitude (altitude at the Finish Point or the elevation of the landing
place) must not exceed 1% of the distance flown. IF IT DOES, ANY CLAIM WILL
NOT BE VALID

For the 59.02 km, your lose of altitude between tow release and landing
would be about 1936 ft.

Not sure which airport in Lost Hills you are heading to, but these numbers
are for Lost Hills - Kern.


"Mark James Boyd" wrote in message
news:4002cdf1$1@darkstar...
In article ,
Jamey Jacobs wrote:
In discussions with other US glider pilots recently, and based on a
quick search of the FARs, I believe that US pilots with PPL-Glider
rating do not need any endorsements or sign-off to go cross country.
If anyone knows differently, let me know.

Before there's lots of advice to get training, fly dual x-c, etc - I
agree, and am not talking about what is the appropriate training. I
just want to verify that a PPL-G includes x-c priveledges. Of course,
clubs and rentals have their own sets of rules.

Jamey,

Correct. The PPL-glider has no X-C restrictions. Whether X-C
is safe for this person is entirely up to them. I personally
think that the Silver badge is fun, and if one can fly for 5+
hours then one can likely achieve the distance for X-C (30+ NM).
Finding and landing at an airport you've never seen before
is the biggest challenge for brand new pilots.

Of course you can always drive to the prospective landing spot and
see if the runway is wide enough/where the taxiways are, etc. Or
you can fly there in a powered airplane. I scouted all of
my landouts before I used any of them.

From there, if you want to be extra cautious, just take a high
tow. At Avenal, for $100, one can get a 10,000 ft tow and
with the typical 15 knot tailwind, fly to Lost Hills airport
as a final glide (with a lot of safety margin). With an $80
GPS on board, it would be hard to miss the destination airport...

I did my first dozen cross-country glider flights solo
(but I did have a PPL-airplane first). I spent a lot of time
on the ground planning and talking to other pilots and
marking the map with landouts and scouting the landouts
though. What you do depends a lot on what glider, what conditions,
what terrain, what skills you have, etc. However you do
it, good luck!

In article ,
Libelle Driver wrote:
Your 10,000 ft tow would invalidate your 59.02 km flight to Lost Hills. The
1% rule is below.

This is absolutely correct. I was not suggesting anyone get a 10,000
foot tow for the silver distance flight. I was simply pointing
out that if landing out scares someone for a first
cross-country (not a Silver distance attempt), the alternative
is just a super high tow the first time to get a good feel for
the terrain and pilotage and feel for the aircraft and then
get there and land without many hours of looking for lift or
the uncertainty of when are you gonna land/coordinating with crew.

On my first X_C (to Lost Hills-Kern), I promised myself (and told my
crew) I would not land back at my home airport, no matter what.
This gave me the courage to leave the local area.

On my first retrieve from Lost Hills, the tow pilot said "don't
release until you're really sure you can make it back."
I ended up halfway back (15 miles out) at 8000 ft (!). I got
back to the airport at 6500 feet, and then had an AMAZING and fun
smooth sunset flight, and even caught some of that mysterious
and elusive "convergence" lift.

From the SSA site:
For flights of less than 100 km, the loss of height between the Start
altitude,(release from tow or altitude at the Start Point) and the Finish
altitude (altitude at the Finish Point or the elevation of the landing
place) must not exceed 1% of the distance flown. IF IT DOES, ANY CLAIM WILL
NOT BE VALID

For the 59.02 km, your lose of altitude between tow release and landing
would be about 1936 ft.

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:52:29 -0800, Michael wrote:
You are correct. A pilot in the US is presumed competent for glider
XC on the day he gets his private glider.

More like "A pilot in the US is presumed competent to self evaluate his
competence to make XC flights on the day he gets his private glider".

Ed

Ed Beers wrote in message ...
On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:52:29 -0800, Michael wrote:
You are correct. A pilot in the US is presumed competent for glider
XC on the day he gets his private glider.

More like "A pilot in the US is presumed competent to self evaluate his
competence to make XC flights on the day he gets his private glider".

Ed

A review of the Practical Test Standards includes the knowledge
elements required to fly cross country. Also required for PP is an
endorsement approving cross country flights.
In order to be better prepared, it is avery good idea to do the SSA
Bronze Badge whicch is focused on elements required for cross country
including simulated off field landings.
Satisfying these and maybe a little personal prep with your CFI or
even another skilled XC pilot and you can safely begin the adventure
of XC
UH

Hank Nixon wrote:

Also required for PP is an
endorsement approving cross country flights.

Nuh-uh. You're makin' that up.

US CFIG's have the OPTION of signing off a student pilot
for X-C, but there is no requirement. And there is no requirement
to do an X-C for the glider PPL to meet flight experience
minimums (at least in the US).