How high can you fly?

Ari Silverstein opined

On Mon, 20 Sep 2010 06:10:02 -0700 (PDT), Mark wrote:

On Sep 19, 7:24*pm, "Ash Wyllie" wrote:

How high can you fly? 95,000ft?
This will soon be a real consideration.

I don't have the figures available at the moment, but I can tell you what
to look for and what to do.

Find the Vs for a C152.

Find the Mmo, likely about M.75.

Your max altitude is where the true Vs == Mmo.

* * * * * * * * * * * * *-ash
* * * * * * * * * * * * *Elect Cthulhu!
* * * * * * * * * * * * *Vote the greater evil.

Thank you so much! Can't wait to run the numbers.

Had this been a contest, you just walked off with a
new trophy.

---
Mark

How'd those numbers come out there, Mark(ie)? It's only been a week.

*ROFL*

Markie seems to be too busy to do his homework. Poor guy.

So I'll do it for him, and give him an F.

Formulae Units mks

TAS = exp(alt/15150) * CAS

Vsound = 340 * sqrt(1 - alt/86400)

Assume a Mmo of .6 and Vs of 25m/s (50kts) your coffin corner is about 28500m
(95000').

What the real figures for a C152, I don't know.

-ash
Elect Cthulhu!
Vote the greater evil.

On Sep 27, 11:43*am, "Ash Wyllie" wrote:
Ari Silverstein opined





On Mon, 20 Sep 2010 06:10:02 -0700 (PDT), Mark wrote:
On Sep 19, 7:24*pm, "Ash Wyllie" wrote:

How high can you fly? 95,000ft?
This will soon be a real consideration.

I don't have the figures available at the moment, but I can tell you what
to look for and what to do.

Find the Vs for a C152.

Find the Mmo, likely about M.75.

Your max altitude is where the true Vs == Mmo.

* * * * * * * * * * * * *-ash
* * * * * * * * * * * * *Elect Cthulhu!
* * * * * * * * * * * * *Vote the greater evil.

Thank you so much! *Can't wait to run the numbers.

Had this been a contest, you just walked off with a
new trophy.

---
Mark
How'd those numbers come out there, Mark(ie)? It's only been a week.
*ROFL*

Markie seems to be too busy to do his homework.

I'm so sorry for my untimeliness in this matter. It slipped
my mind.

Poor guy

Don't worry. I went to a fly-in Saturday, then we all
went out to dinner. And... there's nookie duty.
Busy, busy, busy.


So I'll do it for him, and give him an F.

You're just wanting a second trophy.


Formulae * *Units mks

* * TAS = exp(alt/15150) * CAS

* * Vsound = 340 * sqrt(1 - alt/86400)

Assume a *Mmo of .6 and Vs of 25m/s (50kts) your coffin corner is about 28500m
(95000').

What the real figures for a C152, I don't know.

* * * * * * * * * * * * *-ash
* * * * * * * * * * * * *Elect Cthulhu!
* * * * * * * * * * * * *Vote the greater evil.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

95,000 feet? That sounds familiar with respect to this
topic, within this thread. Now who mentioned that already?

Oh yeah, ME!

I already calculated this without paper.

What's that? A TROPHY?

Than kew! Than kew veri much!

---
Mark

In article ,
"Ash Wyllie" wrote:

Ari Silverstein opined

On Mon, 20 Sep 2010 06:10:02 -0700 (PDT), Mark wrote:

On Sep 19, 7:24*pm, "Ash Wyllie" wrote:

How high can you fly? 95,000ft?
This will soon be a real consideration.

I don't have the figures available at the moment, but I can tell you what
to look for and what to do.

Find the Vs for a C152.

Find the Mmo, likely about M.75.

Your max altitude is where the true Vs == Mmo.

* * * * * * * * * * * * *-ash
* * * * * * * * * * * * *Elect Cthulhu!
* * * * * * * * * * * * *Vote the greater evil.

Thank you so much! Can't wait to run the numbers.

Had this been a contest, you just walked off with a
new trophy.

---
Mark

How'd those numbers come out there, Mark(ie)? It's only been a week.

*ROFL*

Markie seems to be too busy to do his homework. Poor guy.

So I'll do it for him, and give him an F.

Formulae Units mks

TAS = exp(alt/15150) * CAS

Vsound = 340 * sqrt(1 - alt/86400)

Assume a Mmo of .6 and Vs of 25m/s (50kts) your coffin corner is about 28500m
(95000').

What the real figures for a C152, I don't know.


Ash,

I don't know where you got your formula, but MY "Elements of
Gasdynamics" book says that:

Vsound = sqrt(gamma*R*T),
where (for air):
gamma = 1.4 universal gas constant
R = 1715 ft-lb/slug-deg F
T = absolute temperature in Rankine

Nonetheless, the hypothetical C150 would encounter coffin corner before
it gets to 95Kft.

On 9/18/2010 10:24 AM, Mark wrote:
Ok, it's the year 2016. You are in a little Cessna 150.
You're plane isn't pressurized because it will implode,
so you're wearing a pressurized body suit. You have
an oxygen mask. You plane is powered by a very
powerful brushless electric motor supplied by a 20lb
carbon nanotube source that is basically limitless.
Your powerplant is equivalent to 700hp in an LSA.
The electric motor and cabin are heated.

How high can you fly? 95,000ft?

This will soon be a real consideration.

---
Mark

This note resulted in a very long thread, most of which called the
practicality of the postulates into question.

But here's another response, from an engineering viewpoint.
*IF* you could put a 750HP electric motor with limitless power supply
into a C-150 airframe, and hold onto the 1600 lb max gross, the
propeller, given high efficiency, would take the airframe straight up at
about 100 MPH until the prop ran out of air for traction, when the prop-
tips would be exceeding the local speed of sound handily.

Hope this helps!

Brian W

On Oct 10, 10:12*pm, brian whatcott wrote:
On 9/18/2010 10:24 AM, Mark wrote:

Ok, it's the year 2016. You are in a little Cessna 150.
You're plane isn't pressurized because it will implode,
so you're wearing a pressurized body suit. You have
an oxygen mask. You plane is powered by a very
powerful brushless electric motor supplied by a 20lb
carbon nanotube source that is basically limitless.
Your powerplant is equivalent to 700hp in an LSA.
The electric motor and cabin are heated.

How high can you fly? 95,000ft?

This will soon be a real consideration.

---
Mark

This note resulted in a very long thread, most of which called the
practicality of the postulates into question.

But here's another response, from an engineering viewpoint.
*IF* you could put a 750HP electric motor with limitless power supply
into a C-150 airframe, and hold onto the 1600 lb max gross, the
propeller, given high efficiency, would take the airframe straight up at
about 100 MPH until the prop ran out of air for traction, when the prop-
tips would be exceeding the local speed of sound handily.

Hope this helps!

Brian W

Perhaps the wrong engineering model, Brian. Swing wing would not work
as well as using the prop to provide thrust and airflow over the
wings, so the airframe slides up the hill, not hauled up hand over
hand! Helicopters don't get to go as high!

The thrust limitation you mention is a good one -- there simply are
not that many pounds of air to push around within the propeller's
reach. Now, if you attached a big balloon to the 152 and used it as
the basket in a hot air format I expect you could get very high.

On Oct 10, 10:12*pm, brian whatcott wrote:
On 9/18/2010 10:24 AM, Mark wrote:

Ok, it's the year 2016. You are in a little Cessna 150.
You're plane isn't pressurized because it will implode,
so you're wearing a pressurized body suit. You have
an oxygen mask. You plane is powered by a very
powerful brushless electric motor supplied by a 20lb
carbon nanotube source that is basically limitless.
Your powerplant is equivalent to 700hp in an LSA.
The electric motor and cabin are heated.

How high can you fly? 95,000ft?

This will soon be a real consideration.

---
Mark

This note resulted in a very long thread, most of which called the
practicality of the postulates into question.

Exactly my mission statement. To examine the
practicality, especially in light of current developements
which (I already know) make this possible.

But here's another response, from an engineering viewpoint.
*IF* you could put a 750HP electric motor with limitless power supply
into a C-150 airframe, and hold onto the 1600 lb max gross, the
propeller, given high efficiency, would take the airframe straight up at
about 100 MPH until the prop ran out of air for traction, when the prop-
tips would be exceeding the local speed of sound handily.

Hope this helps!

Yes, thanks. I recommend Vr + 10%, while holding back
all that power. Climb expeditiously V4 + 20%. Your Vx
and Vy are no longer a consideration when you can climb
straight up. Don't. Attain straight and level just below the
tropopause to utilize the thermal boundry. You now have the
luxury of a Vbe and a Vbr that doesn't have to factor in
oxygen for combustion.

--Mark



Brian W

On Fri, 15 Oct 2010 05:17:47 -0700 (PDT), Mark wrote:

Exactly my mission statement. To examine the
practicality, especially in light of current developements
which (I already know) make this possible.

Mark Nver Returning to Usenet

Here's my complete mission statement.

http://gayincarolina.jottit.com/

There will be more coming since more Mark is better than Less Mark. So
I have been constantly told.

Mark The More

On Oct 15, 10:25*am, Mark wrote:
On Fri, 15 Oct 2010 05:17:47 -0700 (PDT), Mark wrote:
Exactly my mission statement. To examine the
practicality, especially in light of current developements
which (I already know) make this possible.
Mark Nver Returning to Usenet

Here's my complete mission statement.

http://gayincarolina.jottit.com/

There will be more coming since more Mark is better than Less Mark. So
I have been constantly told.

Mark The More

Since you are Ari the asshole troll, as accurately
explained by this intelligent fellow:

http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Arch.../msg00204.html

And since put viruses in your links, and are
unable to use your own on-line identity,

We'll pass.

---
Mark

On Fri, 15 Oct 2010 10:25:32 -0400, Mark wrote:

On Fri, 15 Oct 2010 05:17:47 -0700 (PDT), Mark wrote:

Exactly my mission statement. To examine the
practicality, especially in light of current developements
which (I already know) make this possible.

Mark Nver Returning to Usenet

Here's my complete mission statement.

http://gayincarolina.jottit.com/

There will be more coming since more Mark is better than Less Mark. So
I have been constantly told.

Mark The More

Since I am Mark the asshole troll, as accurately
explained by me, a self-proclaimed, intelligent fellow:

http://gayincarolina.jottit.com/

And since I no longer use Usenet (due to the stressful
demands of my job installing solar panels), and are
unable to post due to malfunctions in my fukknutzoid brain.

I'll lie.

---
Mark

On Oct 16, 1:32*pm, Mark wrote:
On Fri, 15 Oct 2010 10:25:32 -0400, Mark wrote:
On Fri, 15 Oct 2010 05:17:47 -0700 (PDT), Mark wrote:

Exactly my mission statement. To examine the
practicality, especially in light of current developements
which (I already know) make this possible.

Mark Nver Returning to Usenet

Here's my complete mission statement.

http://gayincarolina.jottit.com/

There will be more coming since more Mark is better than Less Mark. So
I have been constantly told.

Mark The More

Since I am Mark the asshole troll, as accurately
explained by me, a self-proclaimed, intelligent fellow:

http://gayincarolina.jottit.com/

And since I no longer use Usenet (due to the stressful
demands of my job installing solar panels), and are
unable to post due to malfunctions in my fukknutzoid brain.

I'll lie.

---
Mark- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

People on good poppie drugs can fly sky high. Afghan war proves this.
TreBert