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Russia/Chechnya Statistics Update for Michael P., including tensof thousands of civilian deaths
* The official figure for the number of Russian soldiers who died in
Chechnya between 1999 and mid-2003 is 4,705 - though the Soldiers' Mothers of Russia organisation put the figure at 11,000. * Thousands of Russian troops remain in Chechnya - some 38,000 were entitled to vote in a March referendum on a constitution for the republic - only a tiny fraction have been withdrawn. * There are few places where they can feel totally safe. A missile attack on a helicopter in August 2002 killed 116 - the heaviest Russian casualty toll in a single incident since the start of the second Chechen war in 1999. * Their estimate for the first Chechen war, which lasted from 1994 -1996 is 14,000 dead, compared with the official 5,500. Civilian deaths in this war are numbered in the tens of thousands. * More than 250 people went missing in Chechnya in the first half of 2003, according to a member of the pro-Moscow government * Another government official was quoted as saying that 1,178 people had been killed in the first nine months of 2002, and that 654 people had disappeared. - From "Russia's suicide bomb nightmare", http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3020231.stm "Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones at their neighbours." |
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Stop SPAM wrote in message ...
* The official figure for the number of Russian soldiers who died in Chechnya between 1999 and mid-2003 is 4,705 - though the Soldiers' Mothers of Russia organisation put the figure at 11,000. Why not 110000? These "mothers" are such mothers as I am Rome pope. * Thousands of Russian troops remain in Chechnya - some 38,000 were entitled to vote in a March referendum on a constitution for the republic - only a tiny fraction have been withdrawn. According to the russian law. Those one motorized division and VV brigade will stay there on the permament basis, as it was in USSR, and certainly servicemen will have all their civil rights, including rights to vote as everybody else. * There are few places where they can feel totally safe. A missile attack on a helicopter in August 2002 killed 116 - the heaviest Russian casualty toll in a single incident since the start of the second Chechen war in 1999. Those were certainly included into official numbers. * Their estimate for the first Chechen war, which lasted from 1994 -1996 is 14,000 dead, compared with the official 5,500. Civilian deaths in this war are numbered in the tens of thousands. Now 14,000? wat 11,000 just a moment ago? As for civilan casulaties there were many no doubts but as far as I understand there is no reliable data on that matters. Despite of empty propaganda talks recent census showed that chechen population have increased during last 10 years. based on that data estimates of civilian casualties in 10 years were some 10,000 or so. * More than 250 people went missing in Chechnya in the first half of 2003, according to a member of the pro-Moscow government True. Mostly members of prorussian local administrations. * Another government official was quoted as saying that 1,178 people had been killed in the first nine months of 2002, and that 654 people had disappeared. "Mothers of Russia" or "Memorial" data I guess. both are Berezovsky commercial interprises. The guy simply do not want to spend his rest of life in russian prison and pretend to be political refugee in UK. How he can prove that, but funding such antigovernment propaganda outlets as Mothers of Russia", "Memorial" and "Democratic Russia" party? Some idiots like you do believe. By the way "Mothers of Russia" recently declared to become political party under the same ridiculus title. Michael Michael |
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Michael Petukhov wrote:
Stop SPAM wrote in message ... * The official figure for the number of Russian soldiers who died in Chechnya between 1999 and mid-2003 is 4,705 - though the Soldiers' Mothers of Russia organisation put the figure at 11,000. .... * Their estimate for the first Chechen war, which lasted from 1994 -1996 is 14,000 dead, compared with the official 5,500. Civilian deaths in this war are numbered in the tens of thousands. Now 14,000? wat 11,000 just a moment ago? Michael, you're not paying attention. The 11,000 estimate is for the second war (1999-2003), the 14,000 estimate is for the first war (1994-1996). I suggest you read more carefully before you respond. "Mothers of Russia" or "Memorial" data I guess. both are Berezovsky commercial interprises. The guy simply do not want to spend his rest of life in russian prison and pretend to be political refugee in UK. How he can prove that, but funding such antigovernment propaganda outlets as Mothers of Russia", "Memorial" and "Democratic Russia" party? Some idiots like you do believe. As opposed to your belief that the pro-government propaganda outlets are providing you with real, unbiased information? Remember, Michael, that even Russians think the title of "Pravda" is a joke. Michael, I don't 'believe' either. As a more sophisticated user of media in the West, I realize that all media outlets have one bias or another, and the best way to try and discern the truth is to pay attention to all media outlets, learn what their biases are, and then work on extracting what reasonable 'truth' you can out of the conflicting information presented. "Mothers of Russia" presents different data than the official Russian government. They have their own biases. Read both them and the official Russian sources and perhaps take the average of both their figures; perhaps this is closer to the truth. In either case my original point holds. There have been heavy civilian casualties in Chechnya regardless of whose figures you use, and most sources cite heavier civilian casualties in Chechnya than in Iraq. Add this to the facts: * the Iraq population is tens of times bigger than the Chechnyian population * Russia has less troops in Chechnya than the USA has in Iraq. The result is the Chechnyians are suffering far higher civilian casualties per Chechnyian civilian or per Russian soldier than the Iraqis are. "Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones at their neighbours." |
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