The Vietnam Memorial Wall

I liked them and they were good work, but the Wall was what grabbed and
held the attention. On the other hand, the statues were a reminder that
every one of those names had a face.

That's a good thought. Thanks.

I put a good face on them also (as it were!). What I figured was: here
are these three guys, back from a patrol, surprised as hell to
discover that 58,000 of their countrymen are dead in the war.


all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
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The statues are extraneous at best--the addy little to the impact of
the memorial, and politically correct at worst.

Yes. Excruciating.

The implication that
the losses were shared equitably among the races and exclusively by
the Army is wrong.

I didn't mind that so much. (It would be hard to put a statute of a
F-105 there.) I didn't think of the grunts as being exclusively army;
they could stand for the marines as well.

But what a keg of worms you open up! Now the medics will be asking to
be included along with the nurses....

Might want to consider Burkitt's "Stolen Valor" for
the stats on much of this.

I'm astonished as to the popularity of this book, which I discovered
only recently. It had a real jump during the Kerry arguments, up to
#300 on Amazon if I'm not mistaken. Now it's fallen back.

www.warbirdforum.com/valor.htm



all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com

On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 04:17:09 GMT, Guy Alcala
wrote:

Gee, Ed, you can see what you see, but don't you think that making the
Memorial be accessible to those in wheelchairs (i.e. no stairs), undoubtedly
including a considerable number of Vietnam vets who wish to visit it, might
have played a part? I dont remember if the ADA was in effect at the time of
its design and construction, but things were certainly moving that way.

It is wheelchair accessible. The grades are less than 1:12, per
international standards. There are no steps anywhere.

Ken and I were first there years ago, not long after it opened, and we
had no difficulty getting him everywhere at the monument. It hasn't
changed in the ensuing years.

By the way, Ed, the Park Service replaces the directory regularly,
like once every four weeks in the summer (tourist season) and somewhat
less often in the winter. They check its condition daily and replace
it right away if needed.

Mary

--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer

By the way, Ed, the Park Service replaces the directory regularly,
like once every four weeks in the summer (tourist season) and somewhat
less often in the winter. They check its condition daily and replace
it right away if needed.

I was puzzled by the references to the tattered directory, here and in
a video about the Wall. Both times I've visited it (most recently in
January), it struck me as pristine. Apparently I've struck it just
after it was replaced.

The Wall is the only man-made thing in the United States that has ever
given me the reverential feeling that I often experienced in the great
cathedrals of Europe. I don't think this is entirely because I knew
some of the men whose names are engraved on it.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org

On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 05:46:26 -0400, Cub Driver
wrote:


By the way, Ed, the Park Service replaces the directory regularly,
like once every four weeks in the summer (tourist season) and somewhat
less often in the winter. They check its condition daily and replace
it right away if needed.

I was puzzled by the references to the tattered directory, here and in
a video about the Wall. Both times I've visited it (most recently in
January), it struck me as pristine. Apparently I've struck it just
after it was replaced.

The Wall is the only man-made thing in the United States that has ever
given me the reverential feeling that I often experienced in the great
cathedrals of Europe. I don't think this is entirely because I knew
some of the men whose names are engraved on it.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org

YMMV. When I was there, the paper directory was dog-earred and
tattered. The unpainted plywood easel was distinctly makeshift and
seemed out of place. It looked like an afterthought and was definitely
"least cost provider."

Why can't there be an electronic kiosk? Touchscreen, alphabetical
query, returns graphic display showing location and panel
number...This isn't rocket science.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

From: Cub Driver

The Wall is the only man-made thing in the United States that has ever
given me the reverential feeling that I often experienced in the great
cathedrals of Europe.

Quite a contrast with the new WW2 memorial which I visited recently. It did
nothing for me at all. Funny thing is, for years I thought there _was_ a WW2
memorial in DC. I was thinking of the Marines raising the flag statue, which
says all that needs to be said about that war. Sometimes less _is_ more.


Chris Mark

Cub Driver writes:


So what do you guys think of the statues?

The first time I was at the Wall, there were no statues. The second
time, the three soldiers. I was there most recently in January, when
presumably the nurse(s?) had been added, but apparently I didn't
notice.


As I recall, it was the infamous James Watt who demanded the
three soldiers be added. He did not care for the Wall at all;
perhaps because it was designed by "a foreigner"....
--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

Ed Rasimus writes:


YMMV. When I was there, the paper directory was dog-earred and
tattered. The unpainted plywood easel was distinctly makeshift and
seemed out of place. It looked like an afterthought and was definitely
"least cost provider."

Why can't there be an electronic kiosk? Touchscreen, alphabetical
query, returns graphic display showing location and panel
number...This isn't rocket science.

The Wall is not Rocket Science, either. Many, including me, feel it
is a statement to simplicity; something lacking in the war itself.

I can not imagine anything more jarring and out of place there than
a ...touchscreen.. display. After all, the war itself proved that
technology can't solve every problem.

I don't recall if the directory was originally furnished by the
NPS, or the volunteers. Now, as I recall, there are multiple
err podiums with the list protected by a glass shield.

--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

ost (Chris Mark) writes:

The Wall is the only man-made thing in the United States that has ever
given me the reverential feeling that I often experienced in the great
cathedrals of Europe.

Quite a contrast with the new WW2 memorial which I visited recently. It did
nothing for me at all. Funny thing is, for years I thought there _was_ a WW2
memorial in DC. I was thinking of the Marines raising the flag statue, which
says all that needs to be said about that war. Sometimes less _is_ more.

I used to eat lunch at the Iwo Jima statute.

I could rant the new monstro^H^H memorial. But I'll settle for
this. Since the backers DEMANDED [1] it be dead spang in the middle
of the Mall; the result is it must be closed and covered on 4 July.
See, it's where the fireworks might land and damage it....
www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ articles/A56459-2004Jun20.html




[1] The big controversy was/is over its location; not its existence.
--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

I don't recall if the directory was originally furnished by the
NPS, or the volunteers. Now, as I recall, there are multiple
err podiums with the list protected by a glass shield.

I don't remember, either. I doubt Maya Lin came up with that solution.
(Maybe she didn't realize there was a problem! She was thinking of the
Wall as something to do with the country, whereas individuals who go
there are often thinking of it as having to do with other individuals,
whose names they know. This will of course be less true as time goes
on. If I went to Normandy, I wouldn't be looking for the grave marker
of any one person.)

I recall only the one directory, on the opposite side from the
statues. (Personally, I find the directory--paper or electronic--less
jarring than the statues, which really don't belong there. I'm with
Lin on that one.)

Her notion of arranging the names by date is actually a very powerful
one, especially to people like me who were in Vietnam (as a civilian,
in my case) early. By happenstance, I recognized the name of a
helicopter gunner, Ted Winowitz, whose name was at eye level where I
stopped, knowing that this was approximately 1964. (He was declared
dead in December, though the helo went down in June.) Looking at the
names above his was a very significant experience, knowing that very
likely I'd run across some others there but didn't know their names.

Incidentally, at least one name is out of order. The first American
serviceman now recognized to have been killed in Vietnam was Capt
Harry Cramer, a Green Beret, in October 1957.
www.warbirdforum.com/vanguard.htm

As the first, there was no room for him, so he had to be tucked in
where there was a blank, which was done in 1987.
all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org