boycott united forever

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
nk.net...
Good points all! To add another: Anybody, including United employees
could see, in easily obtainable documents, that United was not funding its
pension obligations for many, many years. Any United employee who is
surprised that they aren't going to get their pension is a fool. The
handwriting has been on the wall for years, perhaps decades.

Is it every employee's responsibility to monitor pension funding? If not,
who's responsibility is it?

Just because the information is publicly available, that doesn't mean it's
the fault of someone other than the entity responsible for actually funding
the pension that it didn't get funded.

I can see good reasons for why the "victims" here aren't entirely blameless.
But put blame on them just because they weren't performing watch-dog duties
seems unreasonable.

Pete

Jay Honeck wrote:


Speaking as one of the millions who have never had a pension plan -- and
never will -- $45K per year for sitting around the house sounds pretty
danged good.

You seem to think a pension is some kind of welfare.
It's money you arranged to have taken out of your paycheck, to save up
for retirement.

You know...a "personal account."

And the "sitting around" part is supposed to be the retirement they
worked for all those years. They were wrong to plan for that?

One of us seems to be failing to understand something...

StellaStarr wrote:

You seem to think a pension is some kind of welfare.
It's money you arranged to have taken out of your paycheck, to save up
for retirement.

You're thinking of a 401K. A pension used to be a guaranteed retirement income
in exchange for spending your life working for the company. One could argue that
you exchanged a higher salary for a lower salary and a pension, but no money
was taken out of your paycheck.

George Patterson
There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures. Right next to the
mashed potatoes.

"GP" == George Patterson writes:
GP You're thinking of a 401K. A pension used to be a guaranteed
GP retirement income in exchange for spending your life working
GP for the company. One could argue that you exchanged a higher
GP salary for a lower salary and a pension, but no money was
GP taken out of your paycheck.

I work for the State of California, have a defined-benefit pension,
and for sure they take money from my salary to help fund the pension.

"Bob Fry" wrote in message
...
"GP" == George Patterson writes:
GP You're thinking of a 401K. A pension used to be a guaranteed
GP retirement income in exchange for spending your life working
GP for the company. One could argue that you exchanged a higher
GP salary for a lower salary and a pension, but no money was
GP taken out of your paycheck.

I work for the State of California, have a defined-benefit pension,
and for sure they take money from my salary to help fund the pension.

That must be a reassuring position to be in, giving your retirement money to
the State of California. Hope you are building a nest egg separate from
what you are giving to California.

I have a defined benefit pension program and I don't have money taken
from my paycheck to fund it. You said your're in California right? Are
you sure that the money they take out of your check isn't for supporting
you local illegal aliens? :-)

Jon Kraus

Bob Fry wrote:
"GP" == George Patterson writes:

GP You're thinking of a 401K. A pension used to be a guaranteed
GP retirement income in exchange for spending your life working
GP for the company. One could argue that you exchanged a higher
GP salary for a lower salary and a pension, but no money was
GP taken out of your paycheck.

I work for the State of California, have a defined-benefit pension,
and for sure they take money from my salary to help fund the pension.

George Patterson wrote:
StellaStarr wrote:


You seem to think a pension is some kind of welfare.
It's money you arranged to have taken out of your paycheck, to save up
for retirement.


You're thinking of a 401K. A pension used to be a guaranteed retirement
income in exchange for spending your life working for the company. One
could argue that you exchanged a higher salary for a lower salary and a
pension, but no money was taken out of your paycheck.

George Patterson
There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures. Right next to the
mashed potatoes.
They take $$ out of my paycheck for my pension. The rate varies
periodically, but it's been as high as 7.5% and no I don't have the
option to take my money and not have a pension. One part of it is State
pension the other county.

Margy

"StellaStarr" wrote in message
news:vmVge.74711$r53.43567@attbi_s21...
Jay Honeck wrote:


Speaking as one of the millions who have never had a pension plan -- and
never will -- $45K per year for sitting around the house sounds pretty
danged good.

You seem to think a pension is some kind of welfare.
It's money you arranged to have taken out of your paycheck, to save up
for retirement.

No it isn't. Pension money is fully funded by thr corporation. Nobody at
United has lost a penny of their own money. 401K and similar programs are
not pensions.

You know...a "personal account."

And the "sitting around" part is supposed to be the retirement they
worked for all those years. They were wrong to plan for that?

Planning your retirement on pension money being available is foolhardy.

One of us seems to be failing to understand something..

I believe it is you.

On Fri, 13 May 2005 03:42:19 GMT, StellaStarr
wrote:

Jay Honeck wrote:


Speaking as one of the millions who have never had a pension plan -- and
never will -- $45K per year for sitting around the house sounds pretty
danged good.

Seems like you'd be setting up your own pension plan. I did in
addition to the one from my employer.


You seem to think a pension is some kind of welfare.
It's money you arranged to have taken out of your paycheck, to save up
for retirement.

You know...a "personal account."

And the "sitting around" part is supposed to be the retirement they
worked for all those years. They were wrong to plan for that?

Just because they agreed to have that set aside for them instead of
pay to take home? Part of mine came out of my pay check.

Also for ordinary folks who pay into a pension plan, now days the
money is supposed to go with them when they change jobs. One company
I worked for way back in the 60s had the money I had paid in
transferred to the retirement account of my new employer.

The retirement package is part of the benefits they and their employer
agreed to "in writing" when they started the job. They could have
settled for more money and no pension, but that would have been a poor
trade.

Both I and the company I worked for, paid into an account kept in
escrow for something like 33 years.

I also invested every cent I could get hold of, so now that I'm
retired I don't have to set around the house. I can go play.


One of us seems to be failing to understand something...

Probably over half the population have that problem. :-))

They should start teach investing practices some where around the 8th
grade. If young people would start out saving instead of buying new,
big cars and trucks (one of the worst investments you can make) and
purchased stock on a diversified plan with a good investment counselor
most could probably retire in their 40s.

I was lucky I had smart parents even if my mother only had a high
school education and my dad never made it out of the 8th grade. He had
to work. Still, most thought he at least had some college. They
taught me the meaning of a dollar, but had I listened better I could
have retired a lot younger. As it was, I was 50 when I received my
Bachelors degree. Worked seven more years and retired.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On Fri, 13 May 2005 03:42:19 GMT, StellaStarr
wrote:

You seem to think a pension is some kind of welfare.
It's money you arranged to have taken out of your paycheck, to save up
for retirement.

Not the United pensions, which are "defined benefit".

You are speaking of "defined contribution" plans, which are owned by
the worker and can be taken from job to job.

Sort of like what the prezdint is proposing for Social Security, and
that puts the Good People into conniption fits because it breaks the
bond between welfare-receiving taxpayer and welfare-giving politician.

If you don't have a vested, defined-contribution plan, then you don't
have a pension plan. All you have is a promise. And we are beginning
to see what promises are worth, whether from an airline or from a
guvmint.


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com