Ground/Air Nautical Miles

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 16:44:30 -0500, "Morgans"
wrote:


"Stealth Pilot" wrote


It depends entirely on the engine Pete.
I fly an O-200 in a homebuilt wittman W8 tailwind.
a very simple setup that obeys Lear's admonition.
....and one that I wouldnt swap for a mooney :-)
Stealth Pilot

What are your real world figures for empty weight, and gross for your W8?
It seems the figures I have seen place it ever so close to sport plane
status, except for the speed, but that could be taken care of with a climb
prop, I think.

empty 362kg, (798lb)
max auw 590kg, (1300lb)

you'll find drawings for all but one of the mods on a link from my web
page www.members.iinet.net.au/~tailwind
the tank is 120litres (114 usable) which gives it 5 3/4 hours duration
to dry tanks, or realistically I can make a 300 mile leg into a 15
knot headwind and get there with lots in reserve.

Stealth Pilot

On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 at 11:04:16 in message
, Peter Duniho
wrote:

What your comment about "teaching your grandmother to suck eggs" means, I
have no idea. In the US, "go suck an egg" (and its variants) isn't a
friendly statement, and I didn't see anything in Mr. Pilot's post that would
have justified such a response. But who knows? Maybe in the UK, a
statement like that is considered harmless, for all I know. If not, it sure
seems out of character for you.

Your guess was right it is a harmless statement in the UK. All it means
is you are telling me things not only that I know but so do many
others. Maybe it has gathered connotations that I am aware of. It was
not meant in anyway to be insulting

If I had considered it to be insulting I certainly would not have used
it. It is, I guess, sometimes a hint that someone is being a little bit
patronising.

Your interpretation is correct, I normally try very hard not to be rude,
judgmental or personal. Even with that relatively innocuous remark I
slipped a bit - sorry. I have learnt a little over the years about what
things not to say in America and conversely in the UK. I need to learn
more but to avoid any sort of phrases like that.

'Pass me a rubber please', would go totally unnoticed in the UK because
it means 'pass me an eraser'.
--
David CL Francis

"Morgans"
What are your real world figures for empty weight, and gross for your
W8?
It seems the figures I have seen place it ever so close to sport plane
status, except for the speed, but that could be taken care of with a
climb
prop, I think.

empty 362kg, (798lb)
max auw 590kg, (1300lb)

you'll find drawings for all but one of the mods on a link from my web
page www.members.iinet.net.au/~tailwind
the tank is 120litres (114 usable) which gives it 5 3/4 hours duration
to dry tanks, or realistically I can make a 300 mile leg into a 15
knot headwind and get there with lots in reserve.

Stealth Pilot

Fantastic! Finally, a sport design I could live with.

The W-10 is the current design, right? Where could one find plans for a
W-8?
--
Jim in NC


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Morgans wrote:

The W-10 is the current design, right? Where could one find plans for a
W-8?

You'd probably have to buy them from someone who's built the plane. Check EAA want
ads. Plans for the W-10 are available from Aircraft Spruce for $180.

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...


Morgans wrote:

The W-10 is the current design, right? Where could one find plans for
a
W-8?

You'd probably have to buy them from someone who's built the plane. Check
EAA want
ads. Plans for the W-10 are available from Aircraft Spruce for $180.

George Patterson

Yep, and like most designs, the W-10 has put on some weight, right out of
the ballpark for S.P.

What are the major differences that caused the W-10 put on weight? It is
hard to tell, but from reading personal web sites, it looks like around 350
gross lbs. Also, anyone have some hard numbers on stall speeds for the 8
and 10?
--
Jim in NC


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On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 01:05:20 -0500, "Morgans"
wrote:


"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...


Morgans wrote:

The W-10 is the current design, right? Where could one find plans for
a
W-8?

You'd probably have to buy them from someone who's built the plane. Check
EAA want
ads. Plans for the W-10 are available from Aircraft Spruce for $180.

George Patterson

Yep, and like most designs, the W-10 has put on some weight, right out of
the ballpark for S.P.

What are the major differences that caused the W-10 put on weight? It is
hard to tell, but from reading personal web sites, it looks like around 350
gross lbs. Also, anyone have some hard numbers on stall speeds for the 8
and 10?

my tailwind plans are the original wittman drawings and have both the
W8 and W10 on them with the improved wing aerofoil.
I dont know what it would take to copy them.

stall speeds.
let me caveat these with mention that the bottom of the curve for a W8
is 65 knots and below that you can encounter some amazing sink rates.
takeoff safety speed is 57 knots btw. you wont enjoy flying around
near the stall.

at gross weight of 590 kg
zero flap = 46 knots
15 deg = 44 knots
30 deg = 42 knots
42 deg = 41 knots.

tracking across the nullabor plain with a vintage piper cub I tried
flying throttled back to 65 knots. the tailwind wallows around all
over the place. it really likes to cruise above 100 knots.

a chap in canada has a W8 with a C85 in it and his speeds are within a
knot of mine.
Stealth Pilot

On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 at 11:04:16 in message
, Peter Duniho
wrote:
What your comment about "teaching your grandmother to suck eggs" means, I
have no idea. In the US, "go suck an egg" (and its variants) isn't a
friendly statement, and I didn't see anything in Mr. Pilot's post that would
have justified such a response. But who knows? Maybe in the UK, a
statement like that is considered harmless, for all I know. If not, it sure
seems out of character for you.

Just to add to your question about the above phrase I have been looking
it up and I found a large number of cases where it is being used in a
no-pejorative way. Many of them use it in an apologetic mode where they
are apologising in advance for what they are about to say. i.e. "I may
be teaching my grandmother to suck eggs but I still think that..."

The following is a reasonable history and explanation:

TEACHING ONE’S GRANDMOTHER TO SUCK EGGS

[Q] From Jonathan Downes: “I wonder if you would care to explain a
phrase in wide use but rather odd in its direct meaning: teaching your
grandmother to suck eggs? (This has been in use by my parents, both in
their 70s).�

[A] It does look odd, but its meaning is clear enough: don’t give
needless assistance or presume to offer advice to an expert. As that
prolific author, Anon, once wrote:

Teach not thy parent’s mother to extract
The embryo juices of the bird by suction.
The good old lady can that feat enact,
Quite irrespective of your kind instruction.

Many similar expressions have been invented down the years, such as
Don’t teach your grandmother how to milk ducks, and don’t teach your
grandmother to steal sheep. These have the same kind of absurd image as
the version you quote, which has survived them all. It was first
recorded in 1707 in a translation by John Stevens of the collected
comedies of the Spanish playwright Quevedo: “You would have me teach
my Grandame to suck Eggs�. Another early example, whimsically
inverted, is in Tom Jones by Henry Fielding, published in 1749: “I
remember my old schoolmaster, who was a prodigious great scholar, used
often to say, Polly matete cry town is my daskalon. The English of
which, he told us, was, That a child may sometimes teach his grandmother
to suck eggs�.

But the idea is very much older. There was a classical proverb A swine
to teach Minerva, which was translated by Nichola Udall in 1542 as to
teach our dame to spin, something any married woman of the period would
know very well how to do. And there are other examples of sayings
designed to check the tendency of young people to give unwanted advice
to their elders and betters.


--
David CL Francis

"Stealth Pilot" wrote

my tailwind plans are the original wittman drawings and have both the
W8 and W10 on them with the improved wing aerofoil.
I dont know what it would take to copy them.

So are the plans that are now available now, contain the W-8 and the W-10?

stall speeds.
let me caveat these with mention that the bottom of the curve for a W8
is 65 knots and below that you can encounter some amazing sink rates.
takeoff safety speed is 57 knots btw. you wont enjoy flying around
near the stall.

at gross weight of 590 kg
zero flap = 46 knots
15 deg = 44 knots
30 deg = 42 knots
42 deg = 41 knots.

tracking across the nullabor plain with a vintage piper cub I tried
flying throttled back to 65 knots. the tailwind wallows around all
over the place. it really likes to cruise above 100 knots.

a chap in canada has a W8 with a C85 in it and his speeds are within a
knot of mine.
Stealth Pilot

Thanks for the info. It does not matter if the stall is comfortable or not,
to fit in the new SP class. g I may have to look into the Tailwind more
seriously.
--
Jim in NC


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Morgans wrote:

Thanks for the info. It does not matter if the stall is comfortable or not,
to fit in the new SP class. g I may have to look into the Tailwind more
seriously.

The tailwind is an experimental design and cannot be certified as a light-sport
aircraft. In addition, the maximum allowable stall speed of a SP class aircraft is 45
knots and the maximum speed in level flight cannot exceed 120 knots.

There's some performance data here
http://members.eaa.org/home/homebuil...0Tailwind.html .
Based on the information in an article in the November issue of Sport Aviation, you
will not be allowed to fly a Tailwind on a Sport Pilot certificate, due to the top
speed of the plane.

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.

On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 03:18:03 GMT, "G.R. Patterson III"
wrote:



Morgans wrote:

Thanks for the info. It does not matter if the stall is comfortable or not,
to fit in the new SP class. g I may have to look into the Tailwind more
seriously.

The tailwind is an experimental design and cannot be certified as a light-sport
aircraft. In addition, the maximum allowable stall speed of a SP class aircraft is 45
knots and the maximum speed in level flight cannot exceed 120 knots.

so you run it with a c65 and fine pitch prop, or a subaru conversion,
corvair conversion, rotax, jabiru 2200.
existing tailwinds are experimental but a new one modified for LSA
rules would be ok I think. raspet commented that the design required
65hp to fly.

re the current plans content for morgans. I dont know, I've never
sighted them. suggest asking aircraft spruce or jim irwin directly
what is actually on the plans
Stealth Pilot