OT Quote found on Web

"Mary Shafer" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 05:10:03 GMT, "Lynn Coffelt"
wrote:


"Pat Carpenter" wrote in message
...
Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to
live in the real world.

- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden

http://www.skygod.com/quotes/

Oh, my gosh, did you really say or write that, Mary?

I sure did. I meant it, too. I still do.

Mary

And you're right too!
In the high performance airplane business anyway, all you get is a chance to
do it right the first time.If the airplane gives you a second chance, you're
damn lucky!!!. There are no guarantees. The people who work in this scenario
know the risks completely. They have accepted those risks and done
everything possible to minimize those risks through training, knowledge, and
ability. People who don't know this environment are the ones who do all the
crying and bitching when things go wrong. Those of us who know better do
what everybody in the active community does when the Tiger bites Although we
feel a loss deeply, and believe me, we do feel losses deeply; much more than
anyone outside the arena can ever imagine. We gut this out, then we pick
apart each and every facet of what happened; learn from it; and make
whatever adjustments are necessary to insure that what happened won't happen
to us. Then we assess the damage and get on with the program. There's WORK
to be done, and what we have learned will allow a tragedy to become
something more than a tragedy; a legacy that makes the overall program safer
for those who follow.
It's a cruel world up there, and progress doesn't come with a cheap price
tag sometimes.
I'm reminded of a forward I wrote many years ago for a tech manual I did on
ACM. The forward was true...and about says it all.

" I once had a friend. Jim was one horrific flying son-of-a-bitch. He was
the best natural born fighter pilot I've ever known. In his entire career,
he only made one mistake.
Jim's dead."

Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/CFI
Retired

Subject: OT Quote found on Web (ping Mary)
From: "Dudley Henriques"
Date: 7/17/03 6:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: .net


"Mary Shafer" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 05:10:03 GMT, "Lynn Coffelt"
wrote:


"Pat Carpenter" wrote in message
...
Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to
live in the real world.

- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden

http://www.skygod.com/quotes/

Oh, my gosh, did you really say or write that, Mary?

I sure did. I meant it, too. I still do.

Mary

And you're right too!
In the high performance airplane business anyway, all you get is a chance to
do it right the first time.If the airplane gives you a second chance, you're
damn lucky!!!. There are no guarantees. The people who work in this scenario
know the risks completely. They have accepted those risks and done
everything possible to minimize those risks through training, knowledge, and
ability. People who don't know this environment are the ones who do all the
crying and bitching when things go wrong. Those of us who know better do
what everybody in the active community does when the Tiger bites Although we
feel a loss deeply, and believe me, we do feel losses deeply; much more than
anyone outside the arena can ever imagine. We gut this out, then we pick
apart each and every facet of what happened; learn from it; and make
whatever adjustments are necessary to insure that what happened won't happen
to us. Then we assess the damage and get on with the program. There's WORK
to be done, and what we have learned will allow a tragedy to become
something more than a tragedy; a legacy that makes the overall program safer
for those who follow.
It's a cruel world up there, and progress doesn't come with a cheap price
tag sometimes.
I'm reminded of a forward I wrote many years ago for a tech manual I did on
ACM. The forward was true...and about says it all.

" I once had a friend. Jim was one horrific flying son-of-a-bitch. He was
the best natural born fighter pilot I've ever known. In his entire career,
he only made one mistake.
Jim's dead."

Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/CFI
Retired


May we never forget our absent friends.


Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

John wrote:


Oh, my gosh, did you really say or write that, Mary?
Old Chief Lynn

Yep she did, I've got some posts of hers from years & years ago
with the tagline on it. (in my SR-71 & Skunk-works folder)
shes got a couple of other good ones too!

Well yes she did, I can't say that it impresses me a lot, just as
her assertion that there's no such thing as pilot error does
either.


-Gord.

"You are completely focused on RPM as the
single factor producing rotational velocity"
-Guess who?

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: OT Quote found on Web (ping Mary)
From: "Dudley Henriques"
Date: 7/17/03 6:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: .net


"Mary Shafer" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 05:10:03 GMT, "Lynn Coffelt"
wrote:


"Pat Carpenter" wrote in message
...
Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls
to
live in the real world.

- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden

http://www.skygod.com/quotes/

Oh, my gosh, did you really say or write that, Mary?

I sure did. I meant it, too. I still do.

Mary

And you're right too!
In the high performance airplane business anyway, all you get is a chance
to
do it right the first time.If the airplane gives you a second chance,
you're
damn lucky!!!. There are no guarantees. The people who work in this
scenario
know the risks completely. They have accepted those risks and done
everything possible to minimize those risks through training, knowledge,
and
ability. People who don't know this environment are the ones who do all
the
crying and bitching when things go wrong. Those of us who know better do
what everybody in the active community does when the Tiger bites Although
we
feel a loss deeply, and believe me, we do feel losses deeply; much more
than
anyone outside the arena can ever imagine. We gut this out, then we pick
apart each and every facet of what happened; learn from it; and make
whatever adjustments are necessary to insure that what happened won't
happen
to us. Then we assess the damage and get on with the program. There's
WORK
to be done, and what we have learned will allow a tragedy to become
something more than a tragedy; a legacy that makes the overall program
safer
for those who follow.
It's a cruel world up there, and progress doesn't come with a cheap price
tag sometimes.
I'm reminded of a forward I wrote many years ago for a tech manual I did
on
ACM. The forward was true...and about says it all.

" I once had a friend. Jim was one horrific flying son-of-a-bitch. He was
the best natural born fighter pilot I've ever known. In his entire
career,
he only made one mistake.
Jim's dead."

Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/CFI
Retired


May we never forget our absent friends.

Captain James R. Shotwell Jr.
AO 834311
142nd Fighter Squadron
Delaware Air National Guard
Killed March 19th 1955 1515EST
New Castle Air Force Base
Wilmington Delaware
North American F86A-7-NA
#49-1169N

Just one of the many who won't be forgotten.

Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/CFI
Retired

A friend of mine worked at Sanders Associates, a defense contractor in
navy and air force electronics, for many years. He said that the
mantra there, when a job was finished, was: "Good enough for
government work."

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: www.danford.net/letters.htm#9

see the Warbird's Forum at http://www.danford.net/index.htm
Vietnam | Flying Tigers | Pacific War | Brewster Buffalo | Piper Cub

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 05:10:03 GMT,
"Lynn Coffelt" wrote:

"Pat Carpenter" wrote in message
.. .
Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to
live in the real world.

- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden

http://www.skygod.com/quotes/

Oh, my gosh, did you really say or write that, Mary?

You should wander over to Google and take a look at the complete
message containing that quote:

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...a.gov&oe=UTF-8

It's one of the most articulate discussions about risk that I've come
across, and has broad applicability to many situations in life, way
beyond flight test!

Eric

--
Eric Chevalier
www.tulsagrammer.com

Eric Chevalier wrote:

It's one of the most articulate discussions about risk that I've come
across, and has broad applicability to many situations in life, way
beyond flight test!

Eric

Yes it's pretty good...however you might try asking her about her
views on Pilot Error. You may have noticed that she studiously
ignores the subject even though I give her a little jab about it
occasionally...amazingly she thinks that there's no such
thing...something to the effect that any mistake that one makes
was an error in aircraft design which misled him into making that
error...WooHoo...
--

-Gord.

" wrote:

Eric Chevalier wrote:

It's one of the most articulate discussions about risk that I've come
across, and has broad applicability to many situations in life, way
beyond flight test!

Eric

Yes it's pretty good...however you might try asking her about her
views on Pilot Error. You may have noticed that she studiously
ignores the subject even though I give her a little jab about it
occasionally...amazingly she thinks that there's no such
thing...something to the effect that any mistake that one makes
was an error in aircraft design which misled him into making that
error...WooHoo...
--

-Gord.

Saying the cause was "Pilot error" is a bit like blaming the goalie for
letting in a goal.... (thinking mainly soccer here)... what about the
other 10 men who are supposed to be out their, especially the 2-4 other
defenders....

Kerryn Offord wrote:



" wrote:

Eric Chevalier wrote:

It's one of the most articulate discussions about risk that I've come
across, and has broad applicability to many situations in life, way
beyond flight test!

Eric

Yes it's pretty good...however you might try asking her about her
views on Pilot Error. You may have noticed that she studiously
ignores the subject even though I give her a little jab about it
occasionally...amazingly she thinks that there's no such
thing...something to the effect that any mistake that one makes
was an error in aircraft design which misled him into making that
error...WooHoo...
--

-Gord.

Saying the cause was "Pilot error" is a bit like blaming the goalie for
letting in a goal.... (thinking mainly soccer here)... what about the
other 10 men who are supposed to be out their, especially the 2-4 other
defenders....

But isn't that the point?, those other defenders can stop most of
the 'possible goals' and that leaves the Goalie to seal off the
remainder. Now, if he makes no error then he 'will' seal off that
last one, but if, on the other hand, he makes an error then isn't
it fair to call it 'Goalie Error? (or the soccer equivalent).

Pilots aren't gods, (none of the hundreds that I've worked
closely with were anyway). Lots are great guys, some are turds,
just like the average human.

I suspect that some handsome devil might have convinced her
otherwise at some point.
--

-Gord.

" wrote:

Kerryn Offord wrote:



" wrote:

Eric Chevalier wrote:

It's one of the most articulate discussions about risk that I've come
across, and has broad applicability to many situations in life, way
beyond flight test!

Eric

Yes it's pretty good...however you might try asking her about her
views on Pilot Error. You may have noticed that she studiously
ignores the subject even though I give her a little jab about it
occasionally...amazingly she thinks that there's no such
thing...something to the effect that any mistake that one makes
was an error in aircraft design which misled him into making that
error...WooHoo...
--

-Gord.

Saying the cause was "Pilot error" is a bit like blaming the goalie for
letting in a goal.... (thinking mainly soccer here)... what about the
other 10 men who are supposed to be out their, especially the 2-4 other
defenders....

But isn't that the point?, those other defenders can stop most of
the 'possible goals' and that leaves the Goalie to seal off the
remainder. Now, if he makes no error then he 'will' seal off that
last one, but if, on the other hand, he makes an error then isn't
it fair to call it 'Goalie Error? (or the soccer equivalent).

But when the defenders leave the goalie totally exposed against two+
attackers... that's not goalie error, even diving the wrong way to
defend a penalty isn't goalie error...

What about the design effort that put the controls for the landing gear
and flaps side by side (at least in the A1 Skyraider and some earlier
bombers (B25?))... there were a few occasions of "pilot error" where the
pilot activated the wrong control...... that's why later aircraft had a
"wing" for flaps, and a "wheel" for landing gear...

And then there was the case of the Thai Airways pilot who tried to take
off on the wrong runway (during a storm)... where were all the checks to
make sure he was on the right runway (IIRC he ran into some earth moving
machines just prior to takeoff with heavy loss of life

Now goalie error.

Did you see the one when the goalie swung a boot at a throw in (from his
own side), missed it, and rushed back reaching the ball as it rolled
over the line (into the goal)...