Viable alternatives for serious aviation discussion

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote

Well, for starters, your presumption is incorrect.


You are the exception and appear to be in it for the sport.

Mxsmanic wrote:
Dudley Henriques writes:

It most certainly does work this way. If the student doesn't graduate a
good pilot, the instructor has failed. Therefore the instructor by
definition isn't the good instructor in your example.

I wasn't thinking of the graduation. After the pilot graduates, he flies. A
good pilot is someone who flies well even years after doing what is necessary
to get a license. The same applies to drivers of cars, doctors, lawyers, and
so on. It's one thing to pass a test; it's another to stay competent and/or
perhaps improve over long periods. Instructors have no control over that.

Anything you say Anthony. I've reached that point where it's time to say
I'm not interested in changing your opinion.

--
Dudley Henriques

RST Engineering wrote:
But Dudley, you must admit, sometimes polishing a turd is impossible.

Jim

Either way, the responsibility lies with the instructor. The student is
the workpiece the instructor must complete.



--
Dudley Henriques



This of course assumes the instructor passes everything that comes
through the door. This might work for some instructors. GOOD instructors
engage in an ongoing evaluation of each student they take on. If at
ANY time the GOOD instructor realizes that a specific student isn't
developing the required attitude or attitude change as the case might
be, it's incumbent on the instructor to at that point call in an outside
evaluation for that student; the continuance of instruction to be
decided after that evaluation.
For good CFI's, the question of money or profit doesn't enter the
picture when evaluating a student's attitude toward flying.
There are indeed instructors out here who don't operate this way. For
them, the fact that the student exists on the schedule is a
consideration. Not so for the instructor doing the job properly.
It is admittedily a two way street. Each student must be given the very
best the instructor has to offer. In return, the instructor must DEMAND
the same from the student.
There can indeed come a time with a specific student showing signs of an
"attitude issue" where an instructor should disengage. Some CFI's can do
this, some won't. It's a personal choice for the CFI.
Personally, I have had several students with "bad attitudes" that did
not respond directly to instruction designed to change that attitude. To
eliminate myself as the source of the failure to communicate, I in each
case had the affected student evaluated by another instructor. In every
instance (3 in all) the student was evaluated with an attitude problem
by the second instructor. None of these 3 students were graduated from
our program. I can't speak for their eventual disposition within the
training system.

GOOD CFI's don't graduate students with bad attitudes into the system.



--
Dudley Henriques

Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:

You sure are fixated on "safe".

Yes, and that's a very healthy fixation in aviation.

By definition, any fixation is an abnormal and unhealthy condition.


1. The act or process of fixing or fixating.
2. An obsessive preoccupation.
3. Psychology A strong attachment to a person or thing, especially such
an attachment formed in childhood or infancy and manifested in immature
or neurotic behavior that persists throughout life.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Dudley I think your over complicated, you aren't
a shrink!! I read your essay.

On Aug 20, 11:21 am, Dudley Henriques wrote:
RST Engineering wrote:
But Dudley, you must admit, sometimes polishing a turd is impossible.

Jim

Either way, the responsibility lies with the instructor. The student is
the workpiece the instructor must complete.

--
Dudley Henriques

This of course assumes the instructor passes everything that comes
through the door. This might work for some instructors. GOOD instructors
engage in an ongoing evaluation of each student they take on. If at
ANY time the GOOD instructor realizes that a specific student isn't
developing the required attitude or attitude change as the case might
be, it's incumbent on the instructor to at that point call in an outside
evaluation for that student; the continuance of instruction to be
decided after that evaluation.
For good CFI's, the question of money or profit doesn't enter the
picture when evaluating a student's attitude toward flying.
There are indeed instructors out here who don't operate this way. For
them, the fact that the student exists on the schedule is a
consideration. Not so for the instructor doing the job properly.
It is admittedily a two way street. Each student must be given the very
best the instructor has to offer. In return, the instructor must DEMAND
the same from the student.
There can indeed come a time with a specific student showing signs of an
"attitude issue" where an instructor should disengage. Some CFI's can do
this, some won't. It's a personal choice for the CFI.
Personally, I have had several students with "bad attitudes" that did
not respond directly to instruction designed to change that attitude. To
eliminate myself as the source of the failure to communicate, I in each
case had the affected student evaluated by another instructor. In every
instance (3 in all) the student was evaluated with an attitude problem
by the second instructor. None of these 3 students were graduated from
our program. I can't speak for their eventual disposition within the
training system.
GOOD CFI's don't graduate students with bad attitudes into the system.
Dudley Henriques

I've been fortunate to have good instructors and try
to be one. In an upcoming exercise the instructor
informs me of the lesson, say banked turns.
I do the usual preflight, and the instructor (who I'm
happily paying $50/hr), gently provides suggestions,
so I know what he knows, if he's good.

So, in the sky he could demo a 30 deg nicely balanced
banked turn, and then say you try it, left and right, then
recommend procedural aviation corrections.
If the guy cuts it, go to 45 then 60.
((There is no psychobabble))
Nothing complicated.

Personally I perfer an instructor who uses a few soft
well chosen words than someone who yammers
like a 16 yr old chick that just lost her virginity, so
I can concentrate. I like quality communications in
the cockpit.
Regards
Ken

Mxsmanic wrote:
A tremendous number of moderated discussion forums have long lists of
unofficially favored and disfavored members.

An assertion made with no basis in fact. Please name examples.

Ken S. Tucker wrote:
Dudley I think your over complicated, you aren't
a shrink!! I read your essay.

On Aug 20, 11:21 am, Dudley Henriques wrote:
RST Engineering wrote:
But Dudley, you must admit, sometimes polishing a turd is impossible.
Jim
Either way, the responsibility lies with the instructor. The student is
the workpiece the instructor must complete.
--
Dudley Henriques
This of course assumes the instructor passes everything that comes
through the door. This might work for some instructors. GOOD instructors
engage in an ongoing evaluation of each student they take on. If at
ANY time the GOOD instructor realizes that a specific student isn't
developing the required attitude or attitude change as the case might
be, it's incumbent on the instructor to at that point call in an outside
evaluation for that student; the continuance of instruction to be
decided after that evaluation.
For good CFI's, the question of money or profit doesn't enter the
picture when evaluating a student's attitude toward flying.
There are indeed instructors out here who don't operate this way. For
them, the fact that the student exists on the schedule is a
consideration. Not so for the instructor doing the job properly.
It is admittedily a two way street. Each student must be given the very
best the instructor has to offer. In return, the instructor must DEMAND
the same from the student.
There can indeed come a time with a specific student showing signs of an
"attitude issue" where an instructor should disengage. Some CFI's can do
this, some won't. It's a personal choice for the CFI.
Personally, I have had several students with "bad attitudes" that did
not respond directly to instruction designed to change that attitude. To
eliminate myself as the source of the failure to communicate, I in each
case had the affected student evaluated by another instructor. In every
instance (3 in all) the student was evaluated with an attitude problem
by the second instructor. None of these 3 students were graduated from
our program. I can't speak for their eventual disposition within the
training system.
GOOD CFI's don't graduate students with bad attitudes into the system.
Dudley Henriques

I've been fortunate to have good instructors and try
to be one. In an upcoming exercise the instructor
informs me of the lesson, say banked turns.
I do the usual preflight, and the instructor (who I'm
happily paying $50/hr), gently provides suggestions,
so I know what he knows, if he's good.

So, in the sky he could demo a 30 deg nicely balanced
banked turn, and then say you try it, left and right, then
recommend procedural aviation corrections.
If the guy cuts it, go to 45 then 60.
((There is no psychobabble))
Nothing complicated.

Personally I perfer an instructor who uses a few soft
well chosen words than someone who yammers
like a 16 yr old chick that just lost her virginity, so
I can concentrate. I like quality communications in
the cockpit.
Regards
Ken

If you are reading anything "complicated" into what I have said, I'm
afraid you might be misinterpreting or misunderstanding the entire point.
Flight instruction in NO WAY has to be complicated, and instructors who
over complicate things with the way they interface with a student might
be in need of some added instruction themselves.
Don't read over complication into a written explanation. In practice,
what you are reading is actually the epitome of simplicity :-)

--
Dudley Henriques

wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:

You sure are fixated on "safe".
Yes, and that's a very healthy fixation in aviation.

By definition, any fixation is an abnormal and unhealthy condition.


1. The act or process of fixing or fixating.
2. An obsessive preoccupation.
3. Psychology A strong attachment to a person or thing, especially such
an attachment formed in childhood or infancy and manifested in immature
or neurotic behavior that persists throughout life.



Oh hell, I guess this means no more Pamela Anderson for me . :-)

--
Dudley Henriques

No2 wrote:
"If you cultivate a certain mindset and attitude, nothing ****es you off"

Nothing?

What if you get your Dick caught in your zipper when you are late for
a meeting and the boss is right next to your urinal while you writhe in
agony??

It takes a real man to not get ****ed at that!

You are a tough guy

As long as your wife does not find out, you are safe!! :-))))

Paul

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...
wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:

You sure are fixated on "safe".
Yes, and that's a very healthy fixation in aviation.

By definition, any fixation is an abnormal and unhealthy condition.


1. The act or process of fixing or fixating.
2. An obsessive preoccupation.
3. Psychology A strong attachment to a person or thing, especially such
an attachment formed in childhood or infancy and manifested in
immature
or neurotic behavior that persists throughout life.



Oh hell, I guess this means no more Pamela Anderson for me . :-)

--
Dudley Henriques