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#11
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jay somerset wrote: I am really surprised that an aircraft owner/pilot does not how much his operating costs are. Why? I don't know what mine are. I don't want to know. If I were in business with the plane, it would be a different matter. George Patterson If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have been looking for it. |
#12
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I am really surprised that an aircraft owner/pilot does not how much
his operating costs are. That is just about fundamental for an owner/pilot. Well, before I posted that request, I had asked several Cessna owners I know, and not one of them could tell me what it cost. We knew what our Warrior cost because there were four of us and we had to know what to charge ourselves. vince norris |
#13
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jay somerset wrote: On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 21:30:53 -0400, vincent p. norris wrote: Thanks to all who went to the trouble of writing thoughtful replies. I tried to be brief, so I didn't explain that I'm not planning to buy a Skyhawk ( perhaps I should have). I'll be touring the Canadian Maritimes with a friend in his Skyhawk, and I want to pay half of the operating (not fixed) costs. He said he had no idea what his hourly cost is, but you guys gave me a pretty good range of estimates. vince norris I am really surprised that an aircraft owner/pilot does not how much his operating costs are. That is just about fundamental for an owner/pilot. To what degree of accuracy? I know the total dollars I will spend per year to within a thousand or two. But I have no idea what it costs per hour. That's not even an important number. |
#14
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"vincent p. norris" wrote in message
... ... I'll be touring the Canadian Maritimes with a friend in his Skyhawk, and I want to pay half of the operating (not fixed) costs. ... vince norris Why shouldn't you pay for half the total costs? If your friend hadn't invested in the aircraft then you would have to rent one. The rental will include half the total costs plus some markup for the owner. How is it fair that you should only pay for fuel direct cost? |
#15
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-- Jim Carter "Jim Carter" wrote in message . com... "vincent p. norris" wrote in message ... ... I'll be touring the Canadian Maritimes with a friend in his Skyhawk, and I want to pay half of the operating (not fixed) costs. ... vince norris Why shouldn't you pay for half the total costs? If your friend hadn't invested in the aircraft then you would have to rent one. The rental will include half the total costs plus some markup for the owner. How is it fair that you should only pay for fuel direct cost? That last sentence should read "How is it fair that you should only pay for direct (variable) costs?" |
#16
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Jim Carter wrote:
"vincent p. norris" wrote in message ... ... I'll be touring the Canadian Maritimes with a friend in his Skyhawk, and I want to pay half of the operating (not fixed) costs. ... vince norris Why shouldn't you pay for half the total costs? If your friend hadn't invested in the aircraft then you would have to rent one. The rental will include half the total costs plus some markup for the owner. How is it fair that you should only pay for fuel direct cost? If the friend is a US pilot, there are the restrictions of 14 CFR 61.113 about reimbursement. If you want to concider it a rental, then all the requirements like 100hr inspections apply. In any case, if I were to share an auto trip with someone, I wouldn't expect them to pay a share of my annual insurance or prorated cost of new tires. -- Jim Pennino Remove -spam-sux to reply. |
#17
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wrote in message
... Jim Carter wrote: ... If the friend is a US pilot, there are the restrictions of 14 CFR 61.113 about reimbursement. The restrictions prohibit the pilot (friend) from making a profit, they do not restrict the owner from recovering a pro-rata percentage of the operating cost of the aircraft. I believe the total costs would be considered operating costs because if the owner didn't invest in the aircraft to start with how could it be operated at all? If you want to concider it a rental, then all the requirements like 100hr inspections apply. Right. That's part of my point when I mentioned renting costing more than just direct costs, however I suppose a 100 hour would be an additional direct cost with which the private owner wouldn't have to deal. In any case, if I were to share an auto trip with someone, I wouldn't expect them to pay a share of my annual insurance or prorated cost of new tires. -- Jim Pennino Why not Jim? How is it fair that the owner pay for items from which the passenger benefits? I have to admit that I don't charge passengers to ride with me in the car as long as I have to go anyway, but that's my choice. The fair thing is to split all costs evenly and that should be assumed by any passenger in any vehicle. If the owner/operator wants to be more gratious then that's their choice, not the passengers. Mr. Norris was the passenger on this trip, and it was he who had written that he wouldn't pay anything except direct costs. I think that is the morally wrong position for him to take. |
#18
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Why shouldn't you pay for half the total costs?
Well, for one reason, people who rode with me in my airplane, over the past 30 years, on trips to Alaska and other places, shared operating costs, not hangar rent, insurance, or opportunity cost on my ivestment. (I also didn't ask them to pay half the cost of my aviation medical exam! Or half the cost of getting my licence, 50-some years ago! How about that!!! Am I generous, or what???) For another reason, that's what the FAA appoves, if I read the FARs correctly. If your friend hadn't invested in the aircraft then you would have to rent one. And if I hadn't agreed to fly with him, he would have had to pay the full operating cost of the trip, instead of only half of it. How is it fair that you should only pay for fuel direct cost? You should read posts carefully before replying. I explicitly said that I would pay half of full operating costs, not "fuel only." vince norris |
#19
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Jim Carter wrote:
wrote in message ... Jim Carter wrote: ... If the friend is a US pilot, there are the restrictions of 14 CFR 61.113 about reimbursement. The restrictions prohibit the pilot (friend) from making a profit, they do not restrict the owner from recovering a pro-rata percentage of the operating cost of the aircraft. I believe the total costs would be considered operating costs because if the owner didn't invest in the aircraft to start with how could it be operated at all? And you would be wrong. From 14 CFR 61.113 (c) ....provided the expenses involve only fuel, oil, airport expeditures, or rental fees. As a US private pilot, you can't "share" the cost of such things as engine overhauls, home based tie down fees, insurance, normal maintenance, etc. If you want to concider it a rental, then all the requirements like 100hr inspections apply. Right. That's part of my point when I mentioned renting costing more than just direct costs, however I suppose a 100 hour would be an additional direct cost with which the private owner wouldn't have to deal. As a US operation, you can't charge for anything other than a prorated share of the expenses noted above and be operating under 14 CFR 61. In any case, if I were to share an auto trip with someone, I wouldn't expect them to pay a share of my annual insurance or prorated cost of new tires. -- Jim Pennino Why not Jim? How is it fair that the owner pay for items from which the passenger benefits? I have to admit that I don't charge passengers to ride with me in the car as long as I have to go anyway, but that's my choice. The fair thing is to split all costs evenly and that should be assumed by any passenger in any vehicle. If the owner/operator wants to be more gratious then that's their choice, not the passengers. Mr. Norris was the passenger on this trip, and it was he who had written that he wouldn't pay anything except direct costs. I think that is the morally wrong position for him to take. The bottom line is under US regs you can't legally do this under 14 CFR 61. -- Jim Pennino Remove -spam-sux to reply. |
#20
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That last sentence should read "How is it fair that you should only pay for
direct (variable) costs?" Too late. I already responded to your original message. |
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