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#1
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ClearNav too big?
I think the ClearNav designers may have missed the mark a bit, I'm
trying to figure out why they made the thing so big. In flying with a PDA I have often wanted the screen to be brighter, but never bigger; the other option I would pay for is to have the PDA controls on the stick. I fly a DG and I think the DG panel is pretty standard across their line. A scale drawing can be downloaded from their site which I did, then I sized up to full scale and imported it into a CAD system. After drafting a ClearNav screen and the other instruments I was able to slide them around, trying to find a configuration that would work. In a DG panel I just couldn't get it to work. I think in the long run these devices need to be designed with at least one dimension (height or width) compatible with traditional gear (80mm!). I suspect that there was an available screen that was pressed into service and drove the size. |
#2
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ClearNav too big?
On Jun 9, 1:03*pm, brianDG303 wrote:
I think the ClearNav designers may have missed the mark a bit, I'm How old did you say you were??? Ray Warshaw 1LK trying to figure out why they made the thing so big. In flying with a PDA I have often wanted the screen to be brighter, but never bigger; the other option I would pay for is to have the PDA controls on the stick. I fly a DG and I think the DG panel is pretty standard across their line. A scale drawing can be downloaded from their site which I did, then I sized up to full scale and imported it into a CAD system. After drafting a ClearNav screen and the other instruments I was able to slide them around, trying to find a configuration that would work. In a DG panel I just couldn't get it to work. I think in the long run these devices need to be designed with at least one dimension (height or width) compatible with traditional gear (80mm!). I suspect that there was an available screen that was pressed into service and drove the size. |
#3
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ClearNav too big?
brianDG303 wrote:
I think the ClearNav designers may have missed the mark a bit, I'm trying to figure out why they made the thing so big. In flying with a PDA I have often wanted the screen to be brighter, but never bigger; the other option I would pay for is to have the PDA controls on the stick. I fly a DG and I think the DG panel is pretty standard across their line. A scale drawing can be downloaded from their site which I did, then I sized up to full scale and imported it into a CAD system. After drafting a ClearNav screen and the other instruments I was able to slide them around, trying to find a configuration that would work. In a DG panel I just couldn't get it to work. I think in the long run these devices need to be designed with at least one dimension (height or width) compatible with traditional gear (80mm!). I suspect that there was an available screen that was pressed into service and drove the size. Daylight visible displays are only available in a limited number of sizes. While there are displays in the 3.5" size range that are better than the typical transflective PDA screen, the brightest screens start at a bit larger, hence the size of the ClearNav. If anyone knows of a supplier of bright (500+ nit) 3.5" LED backlit displays, please disclose 8^) Marc |
#4
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ClearNav too big?
Putting it on a small size ASW panel is similarly challenging -- along
with vario, radio, transponder, etc. The ram mounts do a lot to add wiggle room. I put the clear-nav on a short ram mount. It blocks the view of the compass (useless anyway) and backup vario (turned off anyway). Then there was plenty of room for everything. the other option I would pay for is to have the PDA controls on the stick. You could glue the clearnav remote to the stick. Realistically, I like having a little remote that I work with my left hand. (SN10 remote works similarly well). Nothing is as fun as trying to aim at a touchscreen while rocketing down the ridge. No, wait, rebooting said PDA while rocketing down the ridge -- that's more fun. John Cochrane |
#5
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ClearNav too big?
On Jun 9, 1:20 pm, BB wrote:
I put the clear-nav on a short ram mount. It blocks the view of the compass (useless anyway) and backup vario (turned off anyway). Then there was plenty of room for everything. I think that's the way to go with something like this. By placing the ClearNav ON the panel and not IN the panel, it can at best block some other instruments' mounting screws, and at worst some or all of a less used instrument. For example, I use the altimeter in my 302, and only cross check the mechanical. Fuses and connectors can also be placed behind the ClearNav. -Tom |
#6
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ClearNav too big?
On Jun 9, 3:20*pm, BB wrote:
You could glue the clearnav remote to the stick. Realistically, I like having a little remote that I work with my left hand. (SN10 remote works similarly well). Nothing is as fun as trying to aim at a touchscreen while rocketing down the ridge. No, wait, rebooting said PDA while rocketing down the ridge -- that's more fun. John Cochrane The Clearnav will also have the option for a stick mounted remote which incorporates a PTT switch plus all of the buttons required to operate the instrument - a Coolie Hat setup. |
#7
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ClearNav too big?
On Jun 9, 8:42 pm, Bob Gibbons wrote:
On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 10:35:37 -0700, Marc Ramsey wrote: ... text deleted .... Daylight visible displays are only available in a limited number of sizes. While there are displays in the 3.5" size range that are better than the typical transflective PDA screen, the brightest screens start at a bit larger, hence the size of the ClearNav. If anyone knows of a supplier of bright (500+ nit) 3.5" LED backlit displays, please disclose 8^) Marc How about the 3" x 5" 200 DPI (800 x 600) monochrome display from Eink, they make the display for the Sony eBook and the Amazon Kindle. It's not a backlit LED, but its very daylight visible and likely better for our cockpit applications. Seehttp://www.eink.com/kits/broadsheetspec_sheet_041408.pdf Bob e-ink displays are for static images and are not suitable for the moving part of a moving map display. This has been covered on r.a.s. before. Darryl |
#8
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ClearNav too big?
On Jun 11, 7:46*pm, Bob Gibbons wrote:
On Mon, 9 Jun 2008 20:52:46 -0700 (PDT), Darryl Ramm wrote: ... text deleted ... e-ink displays are for static images and are not suitable for the moving part of a moving map display. This has been covered on r.a.s. before. Darryl Well, I guess that settles it, r.a.s says it can't be done :-) Seriously, if you wanted video rate update, I agree with you, current eink displays are not suitable. But for our relatively simple moving map displays, the current generation of eink displays are a viable candidate. One key is that most of the map information is static, and that which does move typically undergoes only a translation. See the following comments in an article quoting Eink. http://papergadgets.blogspot.com/200...d-video-expect... Bob Yes I thought the r.a.s. thing would get a rise. Current generation of e-ink and similar displays really are too slow for moving maps. Yes future devices are another story. As for images things just translating slightly. That does not help the fundamental refresh problem. It would reduce apparent smearing in some cases but you may also get Kindle like display flashes on each refresh, ouch. Believe me you don't want to be trying to run SeeYou on a Kindle. When SeeYou is not just sitting there doing it's thing the UI needs to be pretty snappy. Popping up and scrolling down waypoint lists, select tasks, changing settings, etc. All well outside current e-ink displays, and I don't think you can fundamentally develop a new UI to exploit these displays that has a lot less UI interaction. Of course in future this technology could be great. I like color but being able to see the display at all in bright light (the umm small problem with current PDAs) would indeed be nice. Darryl |
#9
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ClearNav too big?
Darryl Ramm wrote:
Yes I thought the r.a.s. thing would get a rise. Current generation of e-ink and similar displays really are too slow for moving maps. Yes future devices are another story. As for images things just translating slightly. That does not help the fundamental refresh problem. It would reduce apparent smearing in some cases but you may also get Kindle like display flashes on each refresh, ouch. Believe me you don't want to be trying to run SeeYou on a Kindle. When SeeYou is not just sitting there doing it's thing the UI needs to be pretty snappy. Popping up and scrolling down waypoint lists, select tasks, changing settings, etc. All well outside current e-ink displays, and I don't think you can fundamentally develop a new UI to exploit these displays that has a lot less UI interaction. Of course in future this technology could be great. I like color but being able to see the display at all in bright light (the umm small problem with current PDAs) would indeed be nice. One wouldn't want to run SeeYou, but I've seen perfectly usable chart plot style moving maps on e-ink displays. Many moons ago I used to build UIs for ancient technology display technologies (Tektronix storage tubes, early plasma displays) the had the same issue of allowing one to set individual pixels, but having to erase all at once. These included, among other things, real-time tactical information displays that were every bit as interactive as SeeYou. It just took a different UI mindset... Marc |
#10
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ClearNav too big?
On 13 Jun, 03:09, Marc Ramsey wrote:
Darryl Ramm wrote: Yes I thought the r.a.s. thing would get a rise. Current generation of e-ink and similar displays really are too slow for moving maps. Yes future devices are another story. As for images things just translating slightly. That does not help the fundamental refresh problem. It would reduce apparent smearing in some cases but you may also get Kindle like display flashes on each refresh, ouch. Believe me you don't want to be trying to run SeeYou on a Kindle. When SeeYou is not just sitting there doing it's thing the UI needs to be pretty snappy. Popping up and scrolling down waypoint lists, select tasks, changing settings, etc. All well outside current e-ink displays, and I don't think you can fundamentally develop a new UI to exploit these displays that has a lot less UI interaction. Of course in future this technology could be great. I like color but being able to see the display at all in bright light (the umm small problem with current PDAs) would indeed be nice. One wouldn't want to run SeeYou, but I've seen perfectly usable chart plot style moving maps on e-ink displays. *Many moons ago I used to build UIs for ancient technology display technologies (Tektronix storage tubes, early plasma displays) the had the same issue of allowing one to set individual pixels, but having to erase all at once. *These included, among other things, real-time tactical information displays that were every bit as interactive as SeeYou. *It just took a different UI mindset.... Marc Have we given up waiting on OLED display PDA's - and what about Unipixel TMOS displays?? |
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