Collings Foundation Bombers

In article ,
Jon A wrote:

Okay, while I check these FAR #'s, how close do you think one needs to
fly in order to be in "formation"? 36", 9 ft., 15 ft.? 1000 ft.?

Well, a formation can have thousands of feet seperating the
aircraft...depends on what you're doing.

I know of two aircraft that were on parallel approaches and each pilot
was violated for formation flight with passengers onboard. As it turned
out after many dollars being spent, and much time it all went away.

My definition doesn't matter...the FAA is the one you have to worry
about. G

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

Dale wrote:

/snip/
I know of two aircraft that were on parallel approaches and each pilot
was violated for formation flight with passengers onboard. As it turned
out after many dollars being spent, and much time it all went away.
/snip/

Just curious, Dale. Did that happen here (ANC)?

Happy Flying!
Scott Skylane

Bob Moore wrote:
Dale wrote

While there was no reason for the guy to be snippy with you there are
a lot of folks who slide up and fly formation with the bombers without
talking to us before which raises a couple of issues. It is a
violation to fly formation with paying passengers, it is a violation
to conduct a formation flight without a pre-formation brief, and it's
not comfortable or safe to have every tom, dick and harry that thinks
he's a formation pilot coming up on your wing.


How close do I have to be to be "flying in formation"?
Yeah, I know.....FAA lawyers.

Our language seems inadequate. During a glider tow you are flying in
formation. So if you are getting instruction in the glider and the tow
plane has a passenger, it must be illegal.

In article ,
Scott Skylane wrote:

Dale wrote:

/snip/
I know of two aircraft that were on parallel approaches and each pilot
was violated for formation flight with passengers onboard. As it turned
out after many dollars being spent, and much time it all went away.
/snip/

Just curious, Dale. Did that happen here (ANC)?

No. It was back east, involved the B-24 and a Northwest 747. It was
the 747 Captains last flight (and he also flies the B-17 and B-24), they
worked it out with approach to get the -24 and the the 74- on final at
the same time. Minneapolis-St Paul maybe...not sure.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

In article ,
Stubby wrote:



Our language seems inadequate. During a glider tow you are flying in
formation. So if you are getting instruction in the glider and the tow
plane has a passenger, it must be illegal.

hehe I hadn't thought of that one. I fly skydivers. We fly in
formation all the time with other jump aircraft and have people on board
paying to make the skydive. FAA decided they're not passengers since
they are getting out, or something like that.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

Stubby wrote:
Bob Moore wrote:
Dale wrote

While there was no reason for the guy to be snippy with you there are
a lot of folks who slide up and fly formation with the bombers without
talking to us before which raises a couple of issues. It is a
violation to fly formation with paying passengers, it is a violation
to conduct a formation flight without a pre-formation brief, and it's
not comfortable or safe to have every tom, dick and harry that thinks
he's a formation pilot coming up on your wing.


How close do I have to be to be "flying in formation"?
Yeah, I know.....FAA lawyers.

Our language seems inadequate. During a glider tow you are flying in
formation. So if you are getting instruction in the glider and the tow
plane has a passenger, it must be illegal.

Gee, not if it is a club operation (not a commercial operation).


Best regards,

Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocation!" Eberhard

--
Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO
CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jer'at'frii.com WEB http://users.frii.com/jer/
C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider, FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot, BM218 HAM N0FZD, 234 Young Eagles!

Jon A wrote:
Okay, while I check these FAR #'s, how close do you think one needs to
fly in order to be in "formation"? 36", 9 ft., 15 ft.? 1000 ft.?

Air Force definition: "same course, same day".


Best regards,

Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocation!" Eberhard

--
Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO
CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jer'at'frii.com WEB http://users.frii.com/jer/
C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider, FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot, BM218 HAM N0FZD, 234 Young Eagles!

wrote:
Jon A wrote:
Okay, while I check these FAR #'s, how close do you think one needs to
fly in order to be in "formation"? 36", 9 ft., 15 ft.? 1000 ft.?

Air Force definition: "same course, same day".

OOPS... should be:
Air Force definition: "same way, same day".


Best regards,

Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocation!" Eberhard



Best regards,

Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocation!" Eberhard

--
Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO
CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jer'at'frii.com WEB http://users.frii.com/jer/
C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider, FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot, BM218 HAM N0FZD, 234 Young Eagles!

SFO has parallel runways a couple of hundred feet apart. I've flown just off
the wing of several airliners into the Right, while they used the Left.
Al




"Jon A" wrote in message
...
Okay, while I check these FAR #'s, how close do you think one needs to
fly in order to be in "formation"? 36", 9 ft., 15 ft.? 1000 ft.?

On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 22:48:43 -0800, Dale wrote:

In article ,
Frank Stutzman wrote:



Having done some minor bit of formation work, I will certainly agree
with
you that an unplanned formation is way comfortable (heck, I find a
PLANNED formation a little unconfortable). However, I am unaware of any
FARs covering your other statements. Can you refer me to the
appropriate
ones?

91.111 (b) No person may operate an aircraft in formation flight except
by arrangment with the pilot in command of each aircraft in the
formation.

91.111 (c) No person may operate an aircraft, carrying passengers for
hire, in formation flight.

* Al :
SFO has parallel runways a couple of hundred feet apart. I've flown just off
the wing of several airliners into the Right, while they used the Left.

I guess you mean the ILS PRM approach for 28L/R?


Regards,
Daniel