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#21
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Get Rid Of Warbirds At Oshkosh
RST Engineering wrote: I'm prejudiced. Of course I'm prejudiced. In 5000+ flight hours, I've never come as close to a midair as I did at Oshkosh 1999. Oshkosh Tower: "BlueOnBlue Cessna, number three for runway 27. Ercoupe put it on the numbers. Flight of three T6s, cross over runway 27, right downwind for runway 27, caution the Cessna at the gravel pit." (Warbird flight leader) "OK fellers, let's show them what a warbird arrival is like." The Cessna is looking, looking, and turns downwind. The copilot screams, "Oh, my God " and the pilot turns hard left, only to see two wings perhaps fifty feet below. Tower tells warbirds that they nearly had a midair with a Cessna. Warbird flight leader, "Then tell tell the little b@$+@rd to get out of our way." Is there more to this story, like what the FAA or the folks at Oshkosh had to say to the pilot? If it were up to me, I'd get escort him off the premises and get a TRO forbidding him from setting foot there again. If he wanted his plane back, he could send somebody else to fly or truck it out. -- FF |
#22
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OT Get Rid Of Warbirds At Oshkosh
wrote:
Totalitarian states do not permit experimental aviation. Not true. The German Nazi regime of the 1930s loved experimental aviation (and experimental rocketry), they even gave financial support. A lot of the amateur designers and pilots then went on to play a big part in the Second World War. The contemporary British government tried everything it could to stop amateurs getting into the air. As a result, surviving the Battle of Britain (1940) was as much a matter of luck as judgment. Later on we had to put up with bombs mysteriously falling out of the sky (the V2 long range rocket). If the war in Europe had gone on much longer the first man in space would have been a German piloting a two-stage missile to New York. BTW this difference in attitude between British and German governments continues to this day. This explains why German radio hams are putting together a Mars lander, and we can't fly a suitably-equipped Lancair in IFR. |
#23
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Get Rid Of Warbirds At Oshkosh
"Bob Noel" wrote in message
... From this post and others, sounds like everyone would be better served to keep stupid pilots from Oshkosh. But how to do that? There's the rub, eh? As I said in my previous post to this thread, assuming the various descriptions of the situation at Oshkosh are accurate (and there's enough similar ones to have every reason to believe they are), the first step would be for the FAA staff (controllers and inspectors) to stop putting up with the stupid pilots. Pilots who can't comply with the published and transmitted instructions should be refused entry into the Class D, never mind allowed a landing clearance, and FAA inspectors should be filing actions where pilots are actually in violation of the FARs. Pete |
#24
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Get Rid Of Warbirds At Oshkosh
Skylune wrote: its the 98% of pilots who give the rest a bad reputation. Quit yer bitchin' Loon, nobody crashed into any houses... You're repeating yourself (once again) |
#25
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Get Rid Of Warbirds At Oshkosh
"RST Engineering" wrote in message ... I've about had it with the arrogant warbird *******s. The only reason that there are warbirds at Oshkosh is that Pope Paul flew a warbird and wanted to invite his cronies. One might argue that puddle-jumping Cessnas have no place at Oshkosh, after all, how many people go there to look at lines of parked Skyhawks and Cherokees? Warbirds, you are not welcome at Oshkosh. Speak for yourself. Looks like Pope Paul has been replaced by Lord jim. |
#26
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Get Rid Of Warbirds At Oshkosh
"RST Engineering" wrote in message news:AVezg.34 Warbirds, you are not welcome at Oshkosh. Jim Never been there, possibly never will. But I suspect if the EAA has to choose between warbirds and Jim -- well, you might just have some extra time on your hands next summer. :-) |
#27
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OT Get Rid Of Warbirds At Oshkosh
"Canal builder" wrote in message ... | wrote: | | | Totalitarian states do not permit experimental aviation. | | Not true. The German Nazi regime of the 1930s loved experimental aviation | (and experimental rocketry), they even gave financial support. A lot of the | amateur designers and pilots then went on to play a big part in the Second | World War. The contemporary British government tried everything it could to | stop amateurs getting into the air. | | As a result, surviving the Battle of Britain (1940) was as much a matter of | luck as judgment. Later on we had to put up with bombs mysteriously falling | out of the sky (the V2 long range rocket). If the war in Europe had gone on | much longer the first man in space would have been a German piloting a | two-stage missile to New York. | | BTW this difference in attitude between British and German governments | continues to this day. This explains why German radio hams are putting | together a Mars lander, and we can't fly a suitably-equipped Lancair in IFR. | I read where the Germans emphasized sailplanes and their power planes didn't carry much fuel. -- Jarhead ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
#28
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Get Rid Of Warbirds At Oshkosh
I appreciate what you're saying, but couldn't penalty enforcement save
lives if it discourages miscreants. For example, in the scenario presented in the OP, if accurate and assuming that the Cessna pilot was following all ATC instructions and assuming that ATC didn't err, wouldn't some sort of action against the warbird pilots for breaking a FAR (a federal action) or for just being rudely aggressive (an airshow organizers issue) help prevent further such behavior from others that might get a testosterone moment at the next airshow? Dudley Henriques wrote: I completely agree with your comment with one addition. Penalty enforcement is fine, and should be encouraged, but its not what will save lives. Pre-emptive analysis of the entire flight and ground safety issue at Oshkosh is the only approach to this issue that will save lives. The safety program in general at Oshkosh needs a serious and in depth review. The traffic situation vs the space available both in the air and on the ground has reached the point where absolute control is necessary. Without this taking place, I'm afraid there might very well be a need for more "enforcement" after the fact.....down the line. Dudley Henriques "RomeoMike" wrote in message To imply that warbird pilots as a group are hotdogging idiots to be banned is as valid as saying that all Cessna pilots are fine, professional types that do no wrong. Ban a whole group...never. How about some enforcement against the show-offs and rules breakers that form the minority of all pilot groups?! |
#29
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Get Rid Of Warbirds At Oshkosh
Absolutely! I'm not against punative action against violators. In fact, I
agree with you on that issue. Its imparative that violatations be addressed and addressed hard. Its been my experience working in this arena however that punative action only goes just so far in enhancing the safety situation. You "punish" a violator and you reach the violator and a few peripheral pilots who "get the message". On issues like Oshkosh, the situation is so unique and so complex, that to make any headway at all in getting into the guts of the safety issues found in this highly inflammable environment, you will have to take the existing safety program and tear into it piece by piece, finding the weak links and correcting them. Then, after all this has been addressed, the whole thing will have to be distributed throughout the entire EAA community by its own members; literally an Oshkosh education program that reaches down into the heart of the community so that everyone not only knows what's going on, but is an active part in seeing that it goes on properly. This is the only way to clean up something as complicated as the traffic situation that occurs every year at Oshkosh. Safety has to be so high a priority, that nobody will want to be the subject of the community's ire by not adhearing to the established safety policies. In other words, what EAA has to do is supercede the FAA's minimum requirements for flight safety and create a level above that mimimum. Hell...I've been teaching pilots to fly airplanes above the minimum FAA requirements all through my career. Its the "only way to fly". :-)) Dudley Henriques "RomeoMike" wrote in message ... I appreciate what you're saying, but couldn't penalty enforcement save lives if it discourages miscreants. For example, in the scenario presented in the OP, if accurate and assuming that the Cessna pilot was following all ATC instructions and assuming that ATC didn't err, wouldn't some sort of action against the warbird pilots for breaking a FAR (a federal action) or for just being rudely aggressive (an airshow organizers issue) help prevent further such behavior from others that might get a testosterone moment at the next airshow? Dudley Henriques wrote: I completely agree with your comment with one addition. Penalty enforcement is fine, and should be encouraged, but its not what will save lives. Pre-emptive analysis of the entire flight and ground safety issue at Oshkosh is the only approach to this issue that will save lives. The safety program in general at Oshkosh needs a serious and in depth review. The traffic situation vs the space available both in the air and on the ground has reached the point where absolute control is necessary. Without this taking place, I'm afraid there might very well be a need for more "enforcement" after the fact.....down the line. Dudley Henriques "RomeoMike" wrote in message To imply that warbird pilots as a group are hotdogging idiots to be banned is as valid as saying that all Cessna pilots are fine, professional types that do no wrong. Ban a whole group...never. How about some enforcement against the show-offs and rules breakers that form the minority of all pilot groups?! |
#30
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Get Rid Of Warbirds At Oshkosh
The T-6 were performing a missing man formation for the Memorial wall
service that EAA does to remember the pilots that have gone west.... Ps. just got back and boy am I burnt and tired. Dave Zera Co-Chair Safety/ Flight line AirVenture "flyer" wrote in message ups.com... I'd vote to get rid of the Warbirds too. This year [this morning in fact] a small window opened in the extreme weather experienced this year as we were trying to depart. As we lined up on the taxi way, someone decided it would be a great time for some t6s to preform some sort of 'airshow'. We waited and waited with engines running thinking we would be going soon. Twenty minutes later, some of us were let out of the penalty box. After 20 minutes of idle, then applying take off power among aircraft with very different speeds [I was in my Lancair] this is NO time for a hic up! There is a place for this warbird thing but the timing today was way out of line. I've already written EAA Hwq stating my displeasure. Earl Schroeder |
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