The new Fork Tailed Doctor Killer

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrote in message
...
Matt W. Barrow wrote:
"Gig 601XL Builder" wrote in message
...
Dan wrote:

Most C172s with Landing Lights mounted in the nose are notoriously
short lived -- if you fly one of these birds at night you should be
proficient in a no landing light landing.

I think I'd done 4 or 5 night landings with my CFI before he ever let me
even use the landing light. His feeling was, "why train with it if it
isn't going to work when you need it?"

Did he start you in a glider since the engine might quit when you really
needed it?

Or maybe you sat on the ramp making engine noises...

You'll be happy to know that he did not start me in a glider. But I'm glad
he did teach me to land with out the landing light because the thing went
out on me on my second solo night landing.

Just wondering why he started without the light, rather than teaching you
with it, then teaching you without it.

"gliderguynj" wrote in message
...
On Mar 18, 5:49 pm, Gig 601XL Builder
wrote:

You'll be happy to know that he did not start me in a glider

- IMHO starting in a glider is the most logical way to learn to fly.

Depends on your ultimate goals I'd suspect.

On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 22:13:06 -0400, Margy Natalie
wrote:

wrote:
This sort of accident seems to happen all too often. I don't recall
anything in the private licensing curricula about horizonless night
flight hazards. Perhaps it got overlooked, and it's time the FAA took
steps to include it in pilot training.


Actually that is covered in PPL training. In particular the "Airplane
Flying Handbook" covers the many of the nighttime hazaards.

It's also covered in the checkride but only orally.

I wonder if Denny might enlighten us about what non-pilot profession
gets his thumbs up as far as accident rates go. If the Bonanza and
Cirrus are popularly referred to as "Doctor Killers", then I guess 30
year old C150s and C152s must be the "Average Working Stiff Killers".
Or maybe doctors and lawyers lead the charge there too?

I think the reason doctors and lawyers may seem to get into more trouble
is because more doctors and lawyers (and probably software developers
now) can afford slick aircraft and they also have jobs that they really
HAVE to be there on Monday morning (I'm sorry Mr. Smith, I can't do your
heart surgery I'm weathered in ...). Get there itis is a powerful
disease. I can call in that I'm weathered in and take a day of leave,
no problem.

Margy

************************************************** **********

Margy

I agree with you. Get home I'tis played a big part in the Sunday
accidents of Bo's and professional people.

I was a friend with a ex USAF Doc (he died in bed with his boots on
) and his wife. She is a 99er. If they got stuck out due to Wx, he
jumped on a big Aluminum bird and went home for his Monday
appointments. She RON'd and brought bird home when Wx cleared for safe
flying. She's still alive and enjoying her grand children.

Big John

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrote in message
...

I think I'd done 4 or 5 night landings with my CFI before he ever let me
even use the landing light. His feeling was, "why train with it if it
isn't going to work when you need it?"

Back in the days when Orville was signing licenses you could get a pilots
license without ever having flown at
night. You were authorized to do so, but it wasn't covered before the
ticket. :-) As a result, my first landing at night was in a 65HP
Taylorcraft with no electrical system. No landing lights, no clearance
lights, no strobe lights, no rotating beacon, no instrument lights, no
nuttin! :-) Didn't mean to fly after dark. After all it was a day VFR
airplane with no gyros or vacuum system either. Trying to make it to the
next airport and suddenly it was getting dark down there. By the time I got
to the airport it was full dark and no moon. Sort of landed between the
runway lights, on the plane defined by the lights themselves. It was
actually one of my better landings. Set up my three point attitude going
across the threshold and then used a smidge of power to hold the settling
rate down to something easy. Sort of like a a glassy water seaplane
landing, which is, after all the same problem. You don't know exactly when
you are going to touch down! :-)

Highflyer
Highflight Aviation Services
Pinckneyville Airport PJY
PS: It is rec.aviation annual flyin time again. See the flyin faq at
http://www.ousterhout.net/pjy-faq.html If you are going to come this year
please drop Mary a note at and let her know. It helps
tremendously when buying the groceries for the flyin.

Highflyer wrote:
"Gig 601XL Builder" wrote in message
...

I think I'd done 4 or 5 night landings with my CFI before he ever let me
even use the landing light. His feeling was, "why train with it if it
isn't going to work when you need it?"

Back in the days when Orville was signing licenses you could get a pilots
license without ever having flown at
night. You were authorized to do so, but it wasn't covered before the
ticket. :-) As a result, my first landing at night was in a 65HP
Taylorcraft with no electrical system. No landing lights, no clearance
lights, no strobe lights, no rotating beacon, no instrument lights, no
nuttin! :-) Didn't mean to fly after dark. After all it was a day VFR
airplane with no gyros or vacuum system either. Trying to make it to the
next airport and suddenly it was getting dark down there. By the time I got
to the airport it was full dark and no moon. Sort of landed between the
runway lights, on the plane defined by the lights themselves. It was
actually one of my better landings. Set up my three point attitude going
across the threshold and then used a smidge of power to hold the settling
rate down to something easy. Sort of like a a glassy water seaplane
landing, which is, after all the same problem. You don't know exactly when
you are going to touch down! :-)

Highflyer
Highflight Aviation Services
Pinckneyville Airport PJY
PS: It is rec.aviation annual flyin time again. See the flyin faq at
http://www.ousterhout.net/pjy-faq.html If you are going to come this year
please drop Mary a note at and let her know. It helps
tremendously when buying the groceries for the flyin.


Hi HF;

You're bringing back old memories here. The first night landing I ever
made was in a J3 at the old Dupont Airport. Had no electrical system
naturally so no lights either. Wore an old miner's light on my head with
a piece of transparent red paper covering the lens attached by a rubber
band. :-))

--
Dudley Henriques

"Matt W. Barrow" wrote in message
...

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrote in message
...
Dan wrote:


Most C172s with Landing Lights mounted in the nose are notoriously
short lived -- if you fly one of these birds at night you should be
proficient in a no landing light landing.


I think I'd done 4 or 5 night landings with my CFI before he ever let me
even use the landing light. His feeling was, "why train with it if it
isn't going to work when you need it?"

Did he start you in a glider since the engine might quit when you really
needed it?

Or maybe you sat on the ramp making engine noises...


I t wasn't necessary to start in a glider. ALL landings were done power
off. You pulled the throttle off and the carb heat on at your key point.
You were allowed a 3 second blip on base to clear the pipes so the engine
wouldn't load up on you. This business of carrying power all the way to the
threshold is new and I don't really understand it. It puts you on the 3
degree glideslope so you can pretend you are an airline pilot, but it also
ensures that you will NOT make it to the airport if the engine burps after
you reduce the power. Also it makes an accurate landing more difficult
because your rate of descent is less! ( see if that one starts an argument!
:-)

By the way, I strongly recommend a glider rating to all serious pilots. It
will improve your general flying tremendously. You will learn to pay
attention to the little things in life. Power plane instructors teach you
to NEVER turn back if the engine quits. I always get the impression that
they believe it will be instantly fatal if you turn back from 10,000 AGL! A
glider instructor will purposely cut you off at 200 feet on takeoff and
EXPECT you to get back to the runway safely. A turnback maneuver is
mandatory. :-)

Highflyer
Highflight Aviation Services
Pinckneyville Airport PJY

"Dan" wrote in message
...
On Mar 18, 7:16 pm, The Visitor
wrote:
There are some places that do not allow vfr night. It is only ifr at
night.

John

Dan wrote:
On Mar 18, 2:53 pm, gliderguynj wrote:

Another poster mentioned VFR flight at night with a SEL rating.....
that's another thing I see low time pilots doing. I don't quite
follow the FAA logic behind allowing this, but I digress....

Doug

True, though I'd hate to see a *requirement* for IFR simply because
it's night.

There are some nights that VFR is perfectly fine option.

I just think for longer XC where weather changes often and landing
sites are few that filing helps a bit.

But most times I can't justify the added risk factor of SEL long XC at
night, IFR or not.

Dan Mc

Such as...?

Mexico

Highflyer

On Mar 18, 9:29 pm, "Highflyer" wrote:
"Dan" wrote in message

...



On Mar 18, 7:16 pm, The Visitor
wrote:
There are some places that do not allow vfr night. It is only ifr at
night.

John

Dan wrote:
On Mar 18, 2:53 pm, gliderguynj wrote:

Another poster mentioned VFR flight at night with a SEL rating.....
that's another thing I see low time pilots doing. I don't quite
follow the FAA logic behind allowing this, but I digress....

Doug

True, though I'd hate to see a *requirement* for IFR simply because
it's night.

There are some nights that VFR is perfectly fine option.

I just think for longer XC where weather changes often and landing
sites are few that filing helps a bit.

But most times I can't justify the added risk factor of SEL long XC at
night, IFR or not.

Dan Mc

Such as...?

Mexico

Highflyer

I thought he was referring to locations covered by FAA jurisdiction...

Flying at night in Mexico VFR only means one type of flight....

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...
Highflyer wrote:

You're bringing back old memories here. The first night landing I ever
made was in a J3 at the old Dupont Airport. Had no electrical system
naturally so no lights either. Wore an old miner's light on my head with a
piece of transparent red paper covering the lens attached by a rubber
band. :-))


So, wha' do you use now? :~)

Matt W. Barrow wrote:
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...
Highflyer wrote:

You're bringing back old memories here. The first night landing I ever
made was in a J3 at the old Dupont Airport. Had no electrical system
naturally so no lights either. Wore an old miner's light on my head with a
piece of transparent red paper covering the lens attached by a rubber
band. :-))


So, wha' do you use now? :~)


The ultimate in night vision products.........2 flashlights :-)

--
Dudley Henriques