The new Fork Tailed Doctor Killer

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...
Matt W. Barrow wrote:
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...
Highflyer wrote:

You're bringing back old memories here. The first night landing I ever
made was in a J3 at the old Dupont Airport. Had no electrical system
naturally so no lights either. Wore an old miner's light on my head with
a piece of transparent red paper covering the lens attached by a rubber
band. :-))


So, wha' do you use now? :~)
The ultimate in night vision products.........2 flashlights :-)

LED's, I hope!

Frank Stutzman wrote:
Jack Allison wrote:

Yep, my CFII said the students that drove him the most nuts were either
doctors or lawyers. One guy in our instrument ground school (the
lawyer) went out and bought himself a Trinidad as his tool of choice for
his IR lessons. Last I heard, he hadn't completed his rating.

Uhm, I'm missing your point.

Is there something bad about using a Trinidad as the platform instrument
training? Is there something bad about someone with the monetary means
buying a high performance single?

In the interest of disclosure, I used my crusty Bonanza to get my IR.
I already owned it and its the only thing I fly so it made no sense to
rent a trainer. I'm not a doctor or lawyer (although my non-pilot wife is
a physician).


Sorry Frank, I wasn't very clear. IMHO, it's not the airplane nor the
financial means to buy something like a Trinidad that were the main
issue. In this case, it was the particular student and a generally
unteachable attitude when it came to instrument flying. To me, adding
in a higher performance airplane to the mix seems like more of a recipe
for disaster.



--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-Instrument Airplane
Student - CP-ASEL

"To become a Jedi knight, you must master a single force. To become
a private pilot you must strive to master four of them"
- Rod Machado

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

On 2008-03-17, wrote:
I wonder if Denny might enlighten us about what non-pilot profession
gets his thumbs up as far as accident rates go. If the Bonanza and
Cirrus are popularly referred to as "Doctor Killers", then I guess 30
year old C150s and C152s must be the "Average Working Stiff Killers".
Or maybe doctors and lawyers lead the charge there too?

Well, probably not.

If you screw up in a C172 in IFR, it doesn't build speed on you like a
Bonanza does. A C172 is much simpler to manage.

I've had the privilege to fly a Bonanza, I have about 100 hours in the
S-35 model, most of that cross country. It's a fabulous aircraft, and I
found it very easy to fly IFR. However, if you have access to a Bonanza,
or any other reasonably slippery and responsive aircraft, start a bank
in it and let go of the controls. It keeps on banking (until it gets in
a spiral dive). Do that in a C150 or C172 and so long as you haven't
rolled it hard into a 45 degree bank, it'll just roll out wings level
again.

If you are a highly paid professional, you can get into a plane you
don't really have the experience to fly. 'Average working stiffs' have
to get all kinds of experience because they can only rent this kind of
aircraft. IIRC, you needed 500 hrs TT and an IR to get in the one that I
flew.

--
From the sunny Isle of Man.
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.

On Mar 19, 7:10 am, Dylan Smith wrote:

If you screw up in a C172 in IFR, it doesn't build speed on you like a
Bonanza does. A C172 is much simpler to manage.

I've had the privilege to fly a Bonanza, I have about 100 hours in the
S-35 model, most of that cross country. It's a fabulous aircraft, and I
found it very easy to fly IFR. However, if you have access to a Bonanza,
or any other reasonably slippery and responsive aircraft, start a bank
in it and let go of the controls. It keeps on banking (until it gets in
a spiral dive). Do that in a C150 or C172 and so long as you haven't
rolled it hard into a 45 degree bank, it'll just roll out wings level
again.

Good post -- but to clarify...

This spiral instability is a desired feature in a high performance
airplane, not a design flaw.

If you're flying any model Bonanza in IFR a wing leveler AP should be
considered minimum equipment.


Dan Mc

On 2008-03-19, Highflyer wrote:
to NEVER turn back if the engine quits. I always get the impression that
they believe it will be instantly fatal if you turn back from 10,000 AGL! A
glider instructor will purposely cut you off at 200 feet on takeoff and
EXPECT you to get back to the runway safely. A turnback maneuver is
mandatory. :-)

We do winch launches here, as well as aerotow.

If the cable goes (or the weak link - a strong gust of wind will do it
in the main part of the climb), you find yourself at 50 degrees nose up
with all the power suddenly gone away!

This is not a naturally tenable place for the glider, at 450 ft AGL. The
procedure is do a zero-G pushover until you are in a significantly nose
down attitude, allow the speed to rebuild to flying speed, and then
recover to the normal gliding attitude. It's quite exciting doing
semi-aerobatic manoevres that close to the ground. Then, from the
recovery altitude of around 350 feet, you can fly an abbreviated circuit
with a downwind, base and final!

--
From the sunny Isle of Man.
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.

Matt W. Barrow wrote:


Just wondering why he started without the light, rather than teaching you
with it, then teaching you without it.




It was just his thing. Admittedly, we had a very well lit airport, for
and uncontrolled field, and he always did the first night flight for
students on a clear full moon night.

I think it was his pet issue. He had been a freight pilot for a bunch of
years and he didn't trust landing lights at all.

He was also big on shutting off the landing light on final.

One bonus to his instruction that has lasted for 30 years is that I
don't have the same fear of night flight that many others have. A lot of
respect for night flight but not fear.

Bahamas.
And many others.
Some places at 3000 feet agl you change to flight levels.





Dan wrote:

On Mar 18, 7:16 pm, The Visitor
wrote:

There are some places that do not allow vfr night. It is only ifr at night.

John

Dan wrote:

On Mar 18, 2:53 pm, gliderguynj wrote:

Another poster mentioned VFR flight at night with a SEL rating.....
that's another thing I see low time pilots doing. I don't quite
follow the FAA logic behind allowing this, but I digress....

Doug

True, though I'd hate to see a *requirement* for IFR simply because
it's night.

There are some nights that VFR is perfectly fine option.

I just think for longer XC where weather changes often and landing
sites are few that filing helps a bit.

But most times I can't justify the added risk factor of SEL long XC at
night, IFR or not.

Dan Mc


Such as...?

Highflyer wrote:

Mexico



Didn't know about that.

Dan. Night vfr doesn't exist many places because sometimes it is just
too dark. And I suppose invites lesser expierienced pilots to rely on
their decision making ability. So it just doesn't exist. Doesn't really
seem like a bad thing, to me.

John

On Mar 18, 3:48*pm, Dan wrote:
On Mar 18, 3:35 pm, gliderguynj wrote:





On Mar 18, 3:02 pm, Dan wrote:

There are some nights that VFR is perfectly fine option.
Dan Mc

I agree Dan, but for me that means cloudless calm full moon nights. *I
don't think *that the average newly minted pilot has the ability to
safely handle all that can happen at night. *Especially flying when
conditions aren't perfect. *6 miles visibility in the day can be
challenging, let alone 3 miles....do that at night?

From my own experience, flying with a safety pilot in the right seat
on such a calm clear night my landing light fuse blew on final. *No
problem, the safety pilot putzed around with replacing the fuse while
I did a go around. *Had I been solo, the pucker factor would have gone
way up. *If I had a passenger instead of a safety pilot, again not
ideal. *If it wasn't a perfect night weather wise.......the prang
factor just goes up and up.

There are just a bunch of complications that night flying brings. *I'm
not saying change it to IFR only, but 3 hours with an instructor and
10 take off and landings does not a safe night pilot make.

Doug

We all have our ideas of acceptable risk, so I can't fault you. And we
should all know that the CFRsa re legal minimums, not recipes for
success.

That said...

When I do night T/O&Ldg practice every month, I usually do about 2-3
with no landing light (you need a landing light if you're flying for
hire, of course).

Most C172s with Landing Lights mounted in the nose are notoriously
short lived -- if you fly one of these birds at night you should be
proficient in a no landing light landing.

When I practice this I turn the runway lights up full bright. If I see
flickering I know something's between me and the lights, so I go
around (my technique -- in no way universal).

Something I haven't practiced in a while (but should) is a landing or
two with runway lights off (and fully operational airplane landing
lights). This takes some coordination with the tower and not all are
obliging.

I enjoy flying at night -- air's usually stable, traffic is visible,
and the frequencies less busy. I keep my night flights to known routes
and if going longer I'll route over airports. I also restrict these
flights to airplanes that I know by sight, sound, smell, and feel.

Dan Mc- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I hardly ever fly at night so I'm always losing my night currency. A
couple weeks ago I scheduled a 172 and an instructor to fly a night XC
and get my 3 T/O&L's. During pre-flight I discovered that the LL was
not working (detached filament,) but since it was a clear night we
elected to fly anyway. In general, I tend to make better landings at
night, even without a LL. I think that it is because I don't make
unconcious minute corrections because my peripheral vision is limited
- I just let the plane stop flying and settle to the runway.

On Mar 19, 2:47 pm, wrote:

I hardly ever fly at night so I'm always losing my night currency. A
couple weeks ago I scheduled a 172 and an instructor to fly a night XC
and get my 3 T/O&L's. During pre-flight I discovered that the LL was
not working (detached filament,) but since it was a clear night we
elected to fly anyway. In general, I tend to make better landings at
night, even without a LL. I think that it is because I don't make
unconcious minute corrections because my peripheral vision is limited
- I just let the plane stop flying and settle to the runway.

Funny -- I find the same thing -- landings at night are consistently
better as the cues are limited to all that really matters in landing.


Dan Mc