The new Fork Tailed Doctor Killer

On Mar 19, 5:22 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:

Well.....it's too bad I couldn't have stood you by the side of the
runway to hear the Merlin at 61 inches as it went past you on takeoff.
......a little less loud of course when I had to go to 100LL and drop
the takeoff power to 55 inches...but I think you would have known I was
there :-))
Great Doppler effect BTW!!! :-))

--
Dudley Henriques


I would definitely like to hear that...

I spent many hours on flight lines listening to F-102s , F-4s, B-52s,
and A-10s taking off.

But those birds all had their own roar -- not that wonderful throaty
hum of a big IC engine.


Dan Mc

Dan wrote:
On Mar 19, 5:22 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:

Well.....it's too bad I couldn't have stood you by the side of the
runway to hear the Merlin at 61 inches as it went past you on takeoff.
......a little less loud of course when I had to go to 100LL and drop
the takeoff power to 55 inches...but I think you would have known I was
there :-))
Great Doppler effect BTW!!! :-))

--
Dudley Henriques


I would definitely like to hear that...

I spent many hours on flight lines listening to F-102s , F-4s, B-52s,
and A-10s taking off.

But those birds all had their own roar -- not that wonderful throaty
hum of a big IC engine.


Dan Mc

The Chain Saw sound on the R2800 round engine in the F8F wasn't all that
bad either. In the 51, the stacks were right in line with my ears. Even
with the canopy closed, either the 51 or the Bear required cotton in the
ears :-)

--
Dudley Henriques

Bob F. wrote:
And I can vouch for that. The Arrow II that I owned always flew
straight. ;-)

You've been hanging around me too long Bob. It's rubbing off. My wife is
right. It's contagious!!

--
Dudley Henriques

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrote in message
...
Matt W. Barrow wrote:


Just wondering why he started without the light, rather than teaching you
with it, then teaching you without it.




It was just his thing. Admittedly, we had a very well lit airport, for and
uncontrolled field, and he always did the first night flight for students
on a clear full moon night.

I think it was his pet issue. He had been a freight pilot for a bunch of
years and he didn't trust landing lights at all.

He was also big on shutting off the landing light on final.

One bonus to his instruction that has lasted for 30 years is that I don't
have the same fear of night flight that many others have. A lot of respect
for night flight but not fear.

Yes, experience is the best method to weed out fears. I'm just thinking his
TEACHING method is/was inverted to how people actually LEARN. (i.e., the old
cliché about learning to walk before you can run).

In article ,
Dylan Smith wrote:

I've had the privilege to fly a Bonanza, I have about 100 hours in the
S-35 model, most of that cross country. It's a fabulous aircraft, and I
found it very easy to fly IFR.

I've been thinking about Bonanzas lately. I recently met someone
with an old 6-seat V-tail, and he claimed to go 170 kts at 11 gph.
Could he be telling the truth? That sounds pretty impressive and
a little incredible.

--
-Ed Falk,
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/

That's a little hot. He may have meant mph.

--
Regards, BobF.
"Edward A. Falk" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Dylan Smith wrote:

I've had the privilege to fly a Bonanza, I have about 100 hours in the
S-35 model, most of that cross country. It's a fabulous aircraft, and I
found it very easy to fly IFR.

I've been thinking about Bonanzas lately. I recently met someone
with an old 6-seat V-tail, and he claimed to go 170 kts at 11 gph.
Could he be telling the truth? That sounds pretty impressive and
a little incredible.

--
-Ed Falk,
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/

On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 10:35:59 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Mar 17, 10:46*am, Denny wrote:
Tom, don't have statistic 'one'... *What I do have is a set of MK-I
eyeballs... And I know what I see at the airports, and I know what the
'professionals' in my area are buying...
Of the 3 new Cirrus in the area, each one is owned by a professional
who is light in cross country, hi-perf, flying time and heavy in the
wallet... One has already given up flying after pranging his Cirrus 20
for the third time in 18 months and losing his insurance... Good
thing, as we had him ear marked for a black ribbon on the wall... *The
other two are still a work in progress...

What I see is the hard charging, 40 something, professionals, buying
this machine and taking it into sloppy weather, *going skiing, night
time mountain departures, canyon flying including NYC, and so on...
Just like they used to do with the V-Tails... *In sloppy weather *-
200/300 and a half - *we get primarily two kinds of airplanes hitting
the ramp at my hangout... *Pro pilot turbine stuff, and
'professionals' driving a Cirrus or a Malibu... Seems like more Cirrus
in recent years...

denny

Denny,

The fault is not the airplane, it is and always has been this class of
pilot. Piloting is primarily a skillset of judgement and caution,

To me that's what he said. The cirrus has earned/taken the title from
the Bo.

IOW it's the 100 MPH mind in a 200 MPH + airplane.

along with plane handling skills. Many who get into flying tend to
think that plane handling skills are primary, when in fact they are

That may be partially true, but the Bo and Cirrus are not like flying
the old Cessna or Cherokee. In many of them you can climb to 10,000
feet faster than you can safely descend back to the airport. Even with
the gear down "down and welded" the Cirrus is like flying a fairly
heavy single retract with the gear up. All too often pilots still
think of it as a fixed gear airplane with the old "fixed gear"
performance.

They are not gentle and mild mannered like the 150, 172, or Cherokee
line. They are heavier and they are slipperier than snot on a
doorknob. That means when they start accelerating down hill the pilot
only has a fraction of the time to safely get things under control IF
they do every thing right, compared to the old Cessna.

Piloting skills are _extra_important with the Bo and the new
generation of plastic airplanes. A mistake that would be of no
concern in a Cherokee or 172 can rapidly become life threatening in
these planes. IOW these planes are demanding! The do not suffer the
incompetent well.

secondary to judgement, planning and caution. Anyone who pushes their
own limits too far is likely to wind up a statistic.

Judgmental and planning have always been right up there, but the
change to a 200 MPH plus airplane means the pilot has to think much
farther ahead. In these planes you have to know how far out you will
have to start your descent whether VFR or IFR. If IFR ATC isn't going
to always start you down as soon as needed. I've almost always had to
ask to start down for the approach. If at 7000 and cruise I need to
start down about 40 miles out for a cruise descent to be leveled off
and slowed to approach speed. Miss that by a minute late and ATC will
be vectoring me back around to pick up the approach and they expect me
to know better (which I do) Otherwise it's extra single pilot work
after a long flight.


The simple fact that Cirrus is outselling most other models means that

Although most might disagree, the Cirrus is an inexpensive airplane
that gives speed, comfort, class, and long legs. inexpensive is a
relative term, but when compared to other planes of the same
capabilities the price of most run about 50% or even more than the
Cirrus. An A36 which admittedly has a lot more room can easily run 60
to 70% more

statistically you are going to have more low time cocky types flying
them, and that is what also gave the Bonanza its reputation.
Arrogance, in flying, is the deadliest sin.

I'd say it'd be Invulnerability and complacency. Less arrogance and
more of the 100 MPH mind in the 200 MPH airplane.

In these planes you have to have "It *all* together". Piloting
skills, attitude, judgmental skills, and weather knowledge must all be
present and polished.

I've spent many hours just mucking around in marginal conditions in a
Cherokee 180 and in the Deb. In the Cherokee I could almost always
say, "well it looks like it's getting a bit thicker and worse ahead so
we'd better turn around" While in the Deb at near 200 MPH it basically
goes from marginal to "where'd everything go?" in the blink of an eye.
Even being able to file you still have to have every thing ready and
the mind set to fly IFR. When I say being ready to file I mean
*competent* and polished not just current.

Dean
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 13:16:09 -0400, Bill Watson
wrote:

Denny wrote:
Time moves along... The old V-tails are no longer the status symbol...
It appears to me that the Cirrus line of aircraft has become the new
"fork tailed doctor killer", along with stock broker, dentist, lawyer,
etc...

As time moves along, I've begun to realize that the casual trashing of
Doctor/Dentist/Lawyer pilots is as distasteful and probably as
wrong-headed as other kinds of stereotyping.

No way can I find fault with the OP for making this observation.

The Bo earned the title due to the group of pilots who were flying it.
That same group is now moving into the Cirrus. As the majority of the
pilots in these two planes come from the same groups the title is
appropriate even if said planes were docile and forgiving which they
definitely are not.

Here's a couple of figures.
When I went to proficiency training there were 63 of us. Only 3 had
ever done full stalls in the Bo. Most of those pilots didn't even like
doing steep turns.

Over the years I have twice had to take evasive action from someone
being where they weren't supposed to be. One was in the dark. These
involved putting the plane in attitudes that certainly could be
considered unusual and maneuvering at the very limits for the airplane
close to the ground and in the pattern.

Just an observation but at our airport (not the same one Denny flies
out of, but just a hop skip and a jump away) of the pilots who have
had an incident over the last 20 years over half have been Lawyers,
Doctors, judges and other professionals. Right now I can only think
of two who were "normal people"


Me? I'm a professional, or rather a retired one, just not one of the
above.

I used to do it but I've stopped voicing it. Like most prejudices and
beliefs, changing one's attitude is much more difficult than changing
what comes out of one's mouth... but I'm trying.

Thanks
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 15:24:31 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

This sort of accident seems to happen all too often. *I don't recall
anything in the private licensing curricula about horizonless night
flight hazards. *Perhaps it got overlooked, and it's time the FAA took
steps to include it in pilot training.

Actually that is covered in PPL training. In particular the "Airplane
Flying Handbook" covers the many of the nighttime hazaards.

It's also covered in the checkride but only orally.

I wonder if Denny might enlighten us about what non-pilot profession
gets his thumbs up as far as accident rates go. If the Bonanza and
Cirrus are popularly referred to as "Doctor Killers", then I guess 30
year old C150s and C152s must be the "Average Working Stiff Killers".
Or maybe doctors and lawyers lead the charge there too?

Hmmm...I do know a lawyer who pranged a 150 onto 06 and one day less
than a year later pretty much did the same with a 172 on 18. Put
shoulders in the wings he hit so hard. However he quit flying at that
point.
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 22:13:06 -0400, Margy Natalie
wrote:

wrote:
This sort of accident seems to happen all too often. I don't recall
anything in the private licensing curricula about horizonless night
flight hazards. Perhaps it got overlooked, and it's time the FAA took
steps to include it in pilot training.


Actually that is covered in PPL training. In particular the "Airplane
Flying Handbook" covers the many of the nighttime hazaards.

It's also covered in the checkride but only orally.

I wonder if Denny might enlighten us about what non-pilot profession
gets his thumbs up as far as accident rates go. If the Bonanza and
Cirrus are popularly referred to as "Doctor Killers", then I guess 30
year old C150s and C152s must be the "Average Working Stiff Killers".
Or maybe doctors and lawyers lead the charge there too?

I think the reason doctors and lawyers may seem to get into more trouble
is because more doctors and lawyers (and probably software developers

You just had to add that profession didn't you. :-))

now) can afford slick aircraft and they also have jobs that they really
HAVE to be there on Monday morning (I'm sorry Mr. Smith, I can't do your
heart surgery I'm weathered in ...). Get there itis is a powerful
disease. I can call in that I'm weathered in and take a day of leave,
no problem.

Margy
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com