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Subject: hi alt oxygen
From: "Gord Beaman" ) Date: 3/11/04 10:07 AM Pacific Standard Time Message-id: 8o91509jd5cda3kuuemn759 n addition to what he says the effects of hypoxia onset versus altitude is very un linear. The armed Forces mandate oxygen use above 10,000 ft but you can easily survive for very long periods at 20,000 while sitting quietly (I've done it) but increase this Sure. But you can't operate a bombsight with any degree of accuracy under those conditions. Keep your mask on. And at night from the ground up. Arthur Kramer 344th BG 494th BS England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany Visit my WW II B-26 website at: http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer |
#24
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Subject: Chamber Ride was: hi alt oxygen
From: Howard Berkowitz Date: 3/11/04 12:27 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id: In article , (ArtKramr) wrote: ubject: Chamber Ride was: hi alt oxygen From: (OXMORON1) Date: 3/11/04 9:10 AM Pacific Standard Time Message-id: Altitude Chamber training or refresher class. Anyone have a problem with theirs? My only "problem" was the green tint to the atmosphere and the insane giggling of the older O-4 thru O-6 and the horrified looks of the newer Flight Nurse trainees. I had a tough time keeping a straight face and the more you laugh the more green air you inhale. My last refresher was at Offut and the class was about equally split between old farts and new farts, with a few of us mid level farts thrown in the mix. Rick MFE One chamber ride I will never forget is the gas chamber ride. Phosgene, Mustard and tear gasses. Unforgettable Tear gasses, sure. But mustard and phosgene? Mustard, when purified (agent HD rather than H) often has no smell at all. You don't notice anything until the burns start appearing. Phosgene really has no acceptable safety limit that could be used for training. By WWII, phosgene wasn't widely accepted as a chemical agent. Cyanogen or cyanogen chloride would have been far more likely to have been used as quick-casualty agents. Again, no practical safe limit. Mustard had an acrid smell. Phosgene had the smell; of new mown hay. At leas that is the way they were described to us before we went into the chamber. But those of us who were city boys had no idea of what new mown hay smelled like. But we found out soon enough. Arthur Kramer 344th BG 494th BS England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany Visit my WW II B-26 website at: http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer |
#25
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"M. J. Powell" wrote:
In message , Guy Alcala writes snip The difference being the rate at which you ascend from lower altitudes, although the military's 10,000 foot rule seems very conservativ. IIRR, even the FAA allows pilots to fly between 12,500 and 14,000 ft. for 1/2 an hour without O2, and pax can do it indefinitely. Pity the poor fighter pilots in WW1, who used to climb up to 17-20,000 feet without O2 and patrol there for an hour or so in open, unheated cockpits. And suffered massive headaches as a result. Not to mention the castor oil... IIRR, that mainly resulted in nausea and diarrhea, treated with copious amounts of alcohol. Guy |
#26
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In article , ArtKramr
writes Subject: hi alt oxygen From: "Gord Beaman" ) Date: 3/11/04 10:07 AM Pacific Standard Time Message-id: 8o91509jd5cda3kuuemn759 n addition to what he says the effects of hypoxia onset versus altitude is very un linear. The armed Forces mandate oxygen use above 10,000 ft but you can easily survive for very long periods at 20,000 while sitting quietly (I've done it) but increase this Sure. But you can't operate a bombsight with any degree of accuracy under those conditions. Keep your mask on. And at night from the ground up. Arthur Kramer 344th BG 494th BS England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany Visit my WW II B-26 website at: http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer Just out of interest, Art, did you ever have to use the A-7 mask (and presumably a throat mike?) or was the A-14 in universal use while you were operational? Cheers, Dave -- Dave Eadsforth |
#27
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Subject: hi alt oxygen
From: Dave Eadsforth Date: 3/11/04 3:51 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id: In article , ArtKramr writes Subject: hi alt oxygen From: "Gord Beaman" ) Date: 3/11/04 10:07 AM Pacific Standard Time Message-id: 8o91509jd5cda3kuuemn759 n addition to what he says the effects of hypoxia onset versus altitude is very un linear. The armed Forces mandate oxygen use above 10,000 ft but you can easily survive for very long periods at 20,000 while sitting quietly (I've done it) but increase this Sure. But you can't operate a bombsight with any degree of accuracy under those conditions. Keep your mask on. And at night from the ground up. Arthur Kramer 344th BG 494th BS England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany Visit my WW II B-26 website at: http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer Just out of interest, Art, did you ever have to use the A-7 mask (and presumably a throat mike?) or was the A-14 in universal use while you were operational? Cheers, Dave -- Dave Eadsforth In training at Cadet school we used a mask that had a rubber bag hannging down. We called it a spit bag. Every few minutes you had to pull the plug from the bottom of the bag and drain out the saliva. In cold weather it froze and couldn't be drained. Once we graduated and went to transitional we were used low pressure demand masks. More comfortable. Besides those early high pressure systems were given to blowing up if even a minute amount of grease came in contactwith the oxygen. It was a 1,000 lb/sq/ inch sytem., The later demand masks worked on a low pressure system and were much safer as well as more comfortable. Sorry.I don't remember the designations. Arthur Kramer 344th BG 494th BS England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany Visit my WW II B-26 website at: http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer |
#28
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More trivia on flight and oxygen:
1) the F102 always gave us 100%- there was no diluter function. Some ground-pounding designer made the decision we'd always be wearing pressure suits to go after those high-altitude bombers. As it turned out it generally took a direct order to get a pilot airborne in the old skin-tight MC-3&4 partial pressure suits, because they were very unconfortable and visual lookout was definitely impaired because you had to use your free hand to shove your head around to look to each side. Well, one of our guys came down with his lower face singed - claimed the oxygen had flamed his moustache wax. Good story but what had reallyy happened was that he forgot to shut off his oxygen when he lit a cigarette . . .speaking of p-suits I always had a good laugh when I saw the Russky pics of their MiG21 pilots walking along in p-suits that looked jusy like our partial pressure suits. Their flight surgeons were a lot more involved in daily activities than ours - thank God. Next story - this crusty old WW2 pilot and I were off to Tyndall from RG in a T33 - the wx down there was DS and we were at about 37000 to save enough fuel for an alternate. He tried to light a cig but it wouldn't take - the next hour he spent whining at me because I wouldn't descend so he could grab a smoke. Bends - we used to get bubbles under our skin in the older T33s because the pressurization was so weak. Felt like little bugs crawling under the skin (mobile chiggers?). So before a p-suit flight we normally prebreathed 100% O2 for 30 minutes to flush out the N2 to minimize the chance of getting bends. We were on another U2 intercept mission when my squadron mate stopped the flightline trolley, opened up his faceplate, threw up, wiped off his lips, closed the faceplate and motioned to the young, now wide-eyed, airman driver to press on. Hangovers and p-suits don't really go together. He still hacked the mission, though. Speaking of nicotine fits - I had a friend who used to chew tobacco in a 104 - he kept a Prince Albert can in his Gsuit pocket to catch the spit. Never was able to bounce him at just the right time, though. Being a non-smoker I just don't understand guys like that. As for the Rocky Mountains, when we get flatlanders up here for a visit and take them for a drive up over Trail Ridge road - peak altitude about 12,200, they usually doze off because they won't breathe (pant) enough. Both the Pikes Peak and Mt. Evans roads will let you drive up over 14,000. Walt BJ |
#29
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In article , WaltBJ
writes More trivia on flight and oxygen: SNIP of fascinating trivia about high altitude breathing - more welcome anytime! breathe (pant) enough. Both the Pikes Peak and Mt. Evans roads will let you drive up over 14,000. Walt BJ I went to Pike's Peak many years ago and was told that the engines of the VW we were trucked in had special aspiration arrangements - no surprise there. But the people didn't have the same arrangements! Soon after we arrived, some kids started running around and throwing snowballs fairly indiscriminately. But one guy just smiled and said 'Don't worry, folks, it won't last long'. And how true, within a minute the kids were horizontal... :-) Cheers, Dave -- Dave Eadsforth |
#30
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On 11 Mar 2004 19:31:57 -0800, (WaltBJ) wrote:
MC-3&4 partial pressure suits, because they were very unconfortable and visual lookout was definitely impaired because you had to use your free hand to shove your head around to look to each side. Good grief! all the best -- Dan Ford email: (requires authentication) see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com |
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