Cherokee 235 vs Trinidad vs Comanche

"Newps" wrote in message
. ..
Beech just announced they are lowering prices on the Bonanza and Baron.
Now a typically outfitted glass panel Bo has a suggested retail of $574K
down from $667K. The Baron goes from $1.186 million to $1.046 million.

Just as I (more or less) predicted in the thread about the Raytheon buyout.

Douglas Paterson wrote:

1) The throw-over yoke. That's just downright weird--and, especially my
first time out, I'm deliberately avoiding weird. "Baby steps."

Not to worry!

http://www.cygnet.aero/p_dualyoke.html

We are happy owners of a 150 hp Warrior...

But with recently installed Mattison VG's and gap seals...

SERIOUS change in takeoff performance!.. POH is no good any more. Need
to nail down an all new set of numbers..

....Need a new page in the book.....

Been fun...

Dave



On 15 Jan 2007 20:31:08 -0800, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:

And here's a comparison for you. Have Jay take his plane out with two
seats in and 40 gallons. At a density altitude of 5500 my 182 would get
off the ground in 450 feet, it would land in the same distance. If you
can't or don't want to remove the rear seats then reduce the fuel load
accordingly.

With the back seats removed (they pop out in seconds, without tools --
a *very* handy option) and less than half tanks, I'd be hanging on the
prop in about the same distance.

Almost all of my flights are with four people, and full tanks.
However, I clearly remember test-flying the plane with my 135-pound
instructor, and about 25 gallons on board. 'Bout scared the crap outta
myself, seeing only sky and an impossible deck angle on departure. I
was whooping and hollering like an Indian, while my CFI just sat there
laughing...

Coming from a 150 horse Warrior, I thought I was flying a rocketship...

;-)

But they look cool!

Might as well look cool and go fast.

I didn't realize that Mooneys were being considered.
---
Ken Reed
M20M, N9124X

--
Ken Reed
M20M, N9124X

"Newps" wrote in message
. ..

Douglas Paterson wrote:

The further I get in this process, the more I'm leaning away from the
Comanche and toward the Trinidad

You said the Bonanza was not the right plane for you but the Trinidad is?
Holy Cow.

I don't understand this comment. You're obviously a Bonanza fan, and I'm
starting to gather you don't care for Trinidads--but am I missing something
objective here?

--
Doug
"Where am I to go/Now that I've gone too far?" -- Golden Earring, "Twilight
Zone"
(my email is spam-proofed; read the address and make the appropriate change
to contact me)

Consolidating my replies to several folks who responded on this
sub-thread--Dave's reply pretty much covered them all, so it's convenient to
do so.

"dave" wrote in message
news
Doug,
Don't throw out the bonanza for the wrong reasons.
1 - you can have a dual yoke or throw over yoke. No big deal. The throw
over yoke very clever and extremely well made as is everything else in a
Bonanza. If you don't want to throw it over you don't have to. It's
like flying with any other other yoke but you'll be surprised at how
smooth and robust the controls are.

I know every description I've read of Bonanzas have the theme of "well
built" and "solid"--no argument there. I'm also aware of the adapters
(right term?) that convert it to a dual-yoke system--but, that still leaves
a huge bar (two, now) out in front of the panel. Big deal? Probably not,
but it is a detractor (to me).


2 - I've heard this before about reversed controls. In my Bonanza there's
really nothing that's odd or out of place so I'm not sure what it means.
The flaps, gear, throttle, mixture and prop controls are all clearly
identified. My citabria had the throttle on the left and the stick in my
right hand. Now it's yoke in the left hand and throttle in the right hand
as it is in most side by side airplanes.

Here again I'm going on what I've read. "Clearly identified" isn't the
point--my understanding is that both the engine controls and the flap/gear
handles are reversed from a standard setup.


3 - Expensive to buy? I can't imagine getting a decent tb20 for less than
150-200k. For that money you'll get a fantastic Bonanza. Costly to
maintain. I'm really not there yet. So far I've bought two rubber flap
bumpers for $2.70 each and had a attitude indicator rebuilt for $400.00.
You point is a good one but remember, no matter what parts cost - labor is
labor. Also keep in mind that much of the maintenance will be stuff that
is common not Beech specific-engine, radio, instruments, tires, brakes,
fluids, paint, upholstery, wire, lights, etc.

Not true. Later models, sure, but late-80s TB-20s are in the $120Ks--I even
saw a '92 model (w/ a GNS 530!) for $119.9K (it had already sold--I suspect
it had that Lycoming cam subject to the SB in it as a driver of the price).
Compared to similar vintage Bos, that's a lot less money, no? Understood on
the mx issues.


Like most things, you should try one for yourself and see what you think.
It sounds like you've been given advice from folks that don't own or don't
like Bonanzas. I never thought I'd own one but I'm glad I let my friends
talk me into at least flying one before I bought something else.


True again. Of course, if I could fly everything that's out there, I'd
never get around to buying.... I've never seen a Bo for rent--could be
I haven't looked hard enough (which is true), but they're hardly an FBO
staple....

Regardless of the airplane you buy, one thing that was a real bonus for me
was to hire a Bonanza expert. He helped me search for planes and spoke to
the sellers and their mechanics on my behalf. I guess mechanics speak a
special language. He's an AP/IA so he was able to get better information
from other mechanics than I could have. Finally when we had what we
thought was a winner. He did the pre-buy inspection for me.

Now THAT is probably the most key piece of advice yet! How did you go about
finding the "expert"? What were his qualifications (AP/IA--but, did you
look for someone w/ XXX experience working on Bos, or what)? I'm obviously
going to want to have a pre-buy done--I imagine that you paid more than you
would have for "just" a pre-buy, but less than you would have for a pre-buy
plus another person acting as your search agent.... Intriguing idea, I
think I want to use it!

I enjoyed the search for my planes I hope you do too. Best of luck.
Dave
M35


Enjoying it, yes--but, also frustrated. Every time I feel like I've learned
enough to make a decision, another data point comes in that skews the
result! I certainly appreciate everyone's help and the overall discussion,
though....

Thanks!

Doug
--
Doug
"Where am I to go/Now that I've gone too far?" -- Golden Earring, "Twilight
Zone"
(my email is spam-proofed; read the address and make the appropriate change
to contact me)

"Newps" wrote in message
...

The problem you're going to have with the Trinidad is parts. Nobody has
them in stock, everything always has to be ordered. That takes time and
expense. Plus they aren't very fast for what you're going to pay.


Please help me understand this. Are you saying that the Bo (for example)
has parts lying in stock at just about every FBO? I find that hard to
believe. The Socata folks are committed (they say) to a three-day maximum
delivery for parts not in stock (at their service centers--nearest to me is
Phoenix), with lots of stuff in stock "in the system" [source:
http://www.socata.org/html/upload.as...ir craft.pdf].
Is this significantly sub-standard to the situation with Beech parts?

Very fast vs $$? I don't follow. The Trins cruise around 160ktas at
12-14gph; the highest numbers I've seen for the Bo is 168ktas at the same
fuel burn. Slower (marginally), yes. Do I have bad numbers, or have I
missed something?

Thanks!
--
Doug
"Where am I to go/Now that I've gone too far?" -- Golden Earring, "Twilight
Zone"
(my email is spam-proofed; read the address and make the appropriate change
to contact me)

"Ken Reed" wrote in message
...
But they look cool!

Might as well look cool and go fast.

I didn't realize that Mooneys were being considered.

Rim shot! Well done....

Seriously, I did consider Mooneys. Right up until I climbed into one and
felt like I was in a mummy bag.... Great airplanes, just too small for
me....

--
Doug
"Where am I to go/Now that I've gone too far?" -- Golden Earring, "Twilight
Zone"
(my email is spam-proofed; read the address and make the appropriate change
to contact me)

"Montblack" wrote in message
...

What is your acquisition cap? $80K? $100K $150K? $200K?

Not really written in stone, but.... I started w/ $100K; I've since revised
that to $150K (with an obvious desire to stay lower rather than higher!!).


The reason I ask is, how about something brand new ...with two other
partners?


Love the idea. Problem is, I move frequently--any partnership I got into
would have to dissolve or buy me out in a matter of a couple of years.
Primarily for that reason, I discarded the partnership idea early on.

Thanks for the thought, though!
--
Doug
"Where am I to go/Now that I've gone too far?" -- Golden Earring, "Twilight
Zone"
(my email is spam-proofed; read the address and make the appropriate change
to contact me)

I think they are ugly. I like the looks of Jays Pathfinder better than
a Trinidad. :-)

Although our Pathfinder is a very fine looking plane, I'd have to give
the styling edge to the Trinidad.

But I wouldn't trade Atlas for one, even up.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"