Ungrateful Americans Unworthy of the French

"The Black Monk" wrote in message
om...

France was defeated by Germany in WWII (despite putting up a fight
that was more heroic than the Americans had done in 100 years).

WWI was a draw.


It's not a draw when one side surrenders. Where's the other one?

On 8 Oct 2003 05:57:03 -0700, (The Black
Monk) wrote:

WWI was a draw.

The allies won, which is why French and British troops were occupying
the Rhine crossings until the peace treaty was signed and the Germans
weren't doing the same to Paris.

Probably Germany WOULD have won had the Americans not
entered the war.

The Germans threw their last die in their 1918 offensives, staged to
eliminate the British and French armies before the Americans appeared
in the field against them. These offensives were defeated by, in the
vast majority, British and French forces long before the Americans
fielded substantive forces in the front line. The first major
American offensive took place in September 1918, two months *after*
the French had resumed the offensive after defeating the Germans
attacking them. And before anybody mentions the US forces present at
the Second Marne, they should aquaint themselves with the fact that
the British commited equivalent forces to the Americans in that
battle, never mind the far larger commitment of French resources which
dwarfed both.

But, as the articles showed, not because of French
lack of courage or fighting prowess.

Beyond that the French were the major partner in the Allied campaign
on the Western Front from 1914 to 1917, and carried the main weight of
the attritional burden against Germany in that period, something they
get zero acknowledgement for from a lot of people with contemporary
political axes to grind.

The history of their actual contribution to WW1 speaks for itself.

Gavin Bailey

--

Another user rings. "I need more space" he says.
"Well, why not move to Texas?", I ask. - The ******* Operator From Hell

"Marc Reeve" wrote in message
.. .
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"Pierre-Henri Baras" wrote in message
...

Actually it's Germany 3 France 0.
Shows your knowledge of european history.....
Enough said.


What three conflicts would that be?

Yeah, by my score, it's

Napoleon vs. Prussia - a clear win for France
Franco-Prussian War - a clear win for Germany
World War I - "no decision"

Other than one side surrendering - and it wasn't the French.

World War II - a clear win for Germany in 1940

Which wasn't even the half - time score...

amen to that!

/Morten

"The Black Monk" wrote in message
om...
The French

by Gary Brecher

The new big thing on the web is all these sites with names like "I
Hate France," with supposed datelines of French military history,
supposedly proving how the French are total cowards. If you want to
see a sample of this dumbass Frog bashing, try this:

"The Black Monk" wrote in message
om...
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...
"The Black Monk" wrote in message
om...

He means the Franco-Prussian war.


That's one. What are the other two?

France was defeated by Germany in WWII (despite putting up a fight
that was more heroic than the Americans had done in 100 years).


Hardly, the US Civil war had only happened 50 years previously
and the cost to the US in terms of losses as a percentage of
population far higher than France sustained in 1940.

Indeed one hesitates to call the French defence heroic,
individual French units certainly fought heroically and noone
doubts the courage of the french soldier but the
army, as a result of poor organisation and leadership,
did not put up a good performance.


WWI was a draw. Probably Germany WOULD have won had the Americans not
entered the war. But, as the articles showed, not because of French
lack of courage or fighting prowess.


agreed.

Keith

On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 18:04:12 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:


"Alan Minyard" wrote in message
.. .

Germany 2, France 0, enough said.


Germany is two and oh versus France? Didn't Germany surrender in WWI?

Yes, after the British and the US defeated their army.

Al Minyard

On 8 Oct 2003 05:57:03 -0700, (The Black
Monk) wrote:

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message ink.net...
"The Black Monk" wrote in message
om...

He means the Franco-Prussian war.


That's one. What are the other two?

France was defeated by Germany in WWII (despite putting up a fight
that was more heroic than the Americans had done in 100 years).

WWI was a draw. Probably Germany WOULD have won had the Americans not
entered the war. But, as the articles showed, not because of French
lack of courage or fighting prowess.

regards,

BM

In WWII, at the time of the German invasion of France, the French had
more tanks than the Whermact, as well as a greater percentage of
mechanized divisions. They hid in the Maginot line, and their armor
was thrown away in piecemeal engagements.

In WWI the French troops mutinied, and many went home. By the end of
the war the French army was totally defeated.

Al Minyard

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"Marc Reeve" wrote in message
.. .

World War I - "no decision"

Did Germany not surrender?

They did... but I believe the French lost a higher percentage of their
population (the war being fought mostly on French soil).


World War II - a clear win for Germany in 1940

But a clear loss in 1945.

Yea, verily... but how much the French contributed to said defeat is
debatable. (Especially given the argument that if Paris had been
bypassed as originally planned, instead of DeGaulle stealing the French
divisions to liberate the city, the war might have ended six months
sooner.)

-Marc
--
Marc Reeve
actual email address after removal of 4s & spaces is
c4m4r4a4m4a4n a4t c4r4u4z4i4o d4o4t c4o4m

"Alan Minyard" wrote in message
...

Yes, after the British and the US defeated their army.


You'll find that the French army played a significant role in defeating the
German army, if you care to look.

"Marc Reeve" wrote in message
. ..

They did... but I believe the French lost a higher percentage of their
population (the war being fought mostly on French soil).


Irrelevant. The victor does not surrender.