Gliders in the Grand Canyon

RomeoMike writes:

Where can a general aviation aircraft take off and land IN the Grand Canyon?

I count at least four airfields, plus Grand Canyon West and Grand Canyon
National Park airports (but these two aren't actually in the canyon).

d&tm, the "VFR CHART" depicting the rules of SFAR 50-2 was first printed on
4 April 1991.

I too took a great tour operated canyon flight in 1983.

The current charting depicts where GA VFR pilots can cross the canyon below
14,500MSL, normal crossing altitudes in those corridors follow standard VFR
navigation rules but limit altitudes to no lower than 10,500MSL. Any
crossings above 14,500 are not restricted.

There are designated "tour routes" for specific "tour operators" that follow
the path of the canyon, but 90% or more of those routes are maintained at or
above the "rim level" of the canyon. There are a few heliports down in the
canyon for specific uses in specific areas.

There are no charted airports "within the designated canyon protection
airspace" that I can readily see. Even Grand Canyon airport is outside of
the SFAR airspace. Flight areas restricted to 14,500 MSL are colored purple
(magenta) for easy recognition, other sections depicted within SFAR airspace
have the altitudes annotated, as in 8900MSL-SURFACE, in which case you can
cross that area at 9000MSL or higher with proper altitude for direction of
flight. Surface areas along the canyon rim are between 5000-7000MSL or
higher.

As for gliders down below the rim of the canyon? No sane glider pilot would
ever allow himself to get into that position. Having flown in Death Valley
in gliders, get too low, everything is hot, and there are not enough rising
air currents to get up and out of trouble.

Gliders do venture out "over" the Grand Canyon on a regular basis, venturing
there from the Phoenix or Prescott AZ area, and recently down from Parowan
UT and Zion Park areas to the North Rim and return.

Someone did set an altitude record climb in Death Valley many years ago for
his Diamond Badge. A very rare, 3 Diamonds in one flight, Departing Minden
NV for distance, forcing himself low in Death Valley to again climb high
enough for Diamond Altitude while remaining outside Class A airspace
(18,000MSL in USA) and returning to Minden NV. Diamond Distance, Diamond
Goal and Diamond Altitude.

BT

"d&tm" wrote in message
...


Is that a recent rule? I vividly remember my trip to the Grand Canyon in
1985 It was our honeymoon and I havent been able to get back since.
We took a 1 hour flight in a Twin Otter of Grand Canyon Airlines. It went
way down into canyon, and it was quite specatacular looking out the window
to see a rock wall. I will also never forget hearing on the news about
3 months later that one of these planes ( I never did find out if it was
the same one) had a midair with a helicopter killing all onboard.
Terry
PPL Downunder

"BT" wrote in
:

d&tm, the "VFR CHART" depicting the rules of SFAR 50-2 was first
printed on 4 April 1991.

I too took a great tour operated canyon flight in 1983.


By any chance do you remember if your tour was with either Air Nevada
or Scenic Airways?

I did the same tour on my first trip to Las Vegas in the late 1970's.
I had just hit three straight numbers at roulette and rather than give it
back to the casino, I went over to the tour desk and bought whatever would
exhaust my winnings. It was a deluxe tour of the Grand Canyon. The neat
thing was it was in a Ford Trimotor. We were well below the rim of the
canyon for most of the flight. This was one of the things that got me on
the road to eventually becoming a pilot.

--
Marty Shapiro
Silicon Rallye Inc.

(remove SPAMNOT to email me)

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

If there were no airspace restrictions, would it be possible/safe to
fly gliders in the Grand Canyon? There's not much of a place to land
in the canyon, of course, but I don't know if there are thermals or
something (?) that would allow a glider to climb back up out of the
canyon after gliding below the rim. Is it possible? Has anyone done
it?


Why, ? You'll never do it.


Bertie

Mxsmanic wrote:
If there were no airspace restrictions, would it be possible/safe to fly
gliders in the Grand Canyon? There's not much of a place to land in the
canyon, of course, but I don't know if there are thermals or something (?)
that would allow a glider to climb back up out of the canyon after gliding
below the rim. Is it possible? Has anyone done it?

Since according to you MSFS acurately simulates everything including
wake turbulance and posters here are not believeable, why are you
asking instead of just using MSFS to answer the question?


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

writes:

Since according to you MSFS acurately simulates everything including
wake turbulance and posters here are not believeable, why are you
asking instead of just using MSFS to answer the question?

Because I know very little about flying gliders, and trial and error is a slow
way to learn.

Do you know anything about gliders?

Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:

Since according to you MSFS acurately simulates everything including
wake turbulance and posters here are not believeable, why are you
asking instead of just using MSFS to answer the question?

Because I know very little about flying gliders, and trial and error is a slow
way to learn.

Do you know anything about gliders?

Why do you ask?

According to you posters here are neither reliable nor believeable.

Only MSFS has the true answers.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

writes:

Why do you ask?

Never mind.

On Jun 3, 3:44 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:
Why do you ask?

Never mind.


What planning your next terrorist attack using gliders?


Bwawhawhahwhahswhhwhahhw

Bertie

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

writes:

Since according to you MSFS acurately simulates everything including
wake turbulance and posters here are not believeable, why are you
asking instead of just using MSFS to answer the question?

Because I know very little about flying gliders, and trial and error
is a slow way to learn.

You know almost nothing about flying, period.

Do you know anything about gliders?



I do, but I'#m not going to tell you because you are a dick.


Bertie