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#111
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"John R Weiss" wrote in message news:_pmQb.108146$sv6.540134@attbi_s52... I'd be looking for red lights... Green ones are good; but no lights means everyone's asleep, gone home, or not concerned. Red ones mean trouble... They're not going to give you a red light. |
#112
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In article _pmQb.108146$sv6.540134@attbi_s52,
"John R Weiss" wrote: "Steven P. McNicoll" wrote... I wouldn't look for landing clearance either. I was just curious what he would do if he saw no light. I'd be looking for red lights... Green ones are good; but no lights means everyone's asleep, gone home, or not concerned. Red ones mean trouble... Once I've got the runway in sight, I can't think of anything short of a raging inferno or a confirmed spotting of a FSDO guy doing ramp checks that would get me back into the clouds nordo. Even if there was another aircraft on the runway, I'd land behind him, or put it down on the grass. Of course, I'm talking spam cans here. What makes sense for me may not make sense for heavy metal. |
#113
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"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
link.net... | | "John R Weiss" wrote in message | news:_pmQb.108146$sv6.540134@attbi_s52... | | I'd be looking for red lights... Green ones are good; but no lights means | everyone's asleep, gone home, or not concerned. Red ones mean trouble... | | | They're not going to give you a red light. Yeah, any red light could be: a) a lighted obstacle you're about to hit; b) break lights from a car ;-) |
#114
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"Randy at Home" wrote in message able.rogers.com... Yeah, any red light could be: a) a lighted obstacle you're about to hit; b) break lights from a car ;-) Think about it. If they don't give you any light gun signal and you land without a clearance they're not at fault if you come to grief. If they give you a red light gun signal and you put your NORDO airplane back in the clouds and then come to grief somewhere they're gonna get a full share of the blame. |
#115
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"Roy Smith" wrote...
Once I've got the runway in sight, I can't think of anything short of a raging inferno or a confirmed spotting of a FSDO guy doing ramp checks that would get me back into the clouds nordo. If the FSDO guy is Jack Seymour in ANC, go ahead and land. He's probably the closest to a Fed actually "here to help" that I've ever run across! |
#116
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Another thing we learned on that flight was that handhelds aren't worth crap inside the airplane. We both had handhelds, and we tried them both, to no avail. First, hearing anything over the cabin noise was very difficult (neither of us had adapters to plug our headsets into the handheld radios). Second, the little rubber ducky antennas don't work for ****, especially inside a metal airplane cabin. What I think would make the most sense is a way to connect your handheld directly to the external antenna in the plane, and make sure you've got a way to plug your headsets directly into your handheld radio. I did exactly that with my 172 and it works well. The avionics shop installed a small jack that is connected to the #2 Com between the radio and the antenna. When the cable is plugged into the jack, it disconnects the built in radio from the antenna and connects the handheld directly to the external antenna. I have a headset adapter attached to the lanyard clip on the handheld so that it is always at hand, and the antenna adapter cable is in the glove box along with a spare flashlight and a pair of vice-grips (in case a knob falls off of something). I have tested the setup while flying VMC and it works well. The only problem with it is that the internal VOR capability on the handset (ICOM A22) doesn't work well because the antenna orientation is wrong, but during a real failure I'll choose communications with ATC over a NAV radio every time. |
#117
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"John R Weiss" wrote in message news:_biPb.92428$5V2.241427@attbi_s53... "Gary Drescher" wrote... Sure, but if the fix in question is your destination airport and your clearance limit, then you might have equipment that lets you navigate to that fix by a published approach to the airport (say, via an off-field NDB or VOR), but not have any way to identify the fix as a holding fix. If you can navigate to a place once, you can do it again. If your navigational ability is so degraded that you cannot find your position via VOR/DME, VOR/VOR, VOR/NDB, or similar means, then you probably should declare an emergency and navigate any way you can to any place you can identify. I disagree that the ability to navigate to a place once means you can do it again. AIM 1-1-9.b clearly states that localizer goidance is only valid out to 35 degrees each side of the course, and that the back course is specifically not to be used for guidance unless a back course procedure exists. Assume a 90kt holding speed and an NDB colocated with the localizer antenna to identify the fix. If there were a 20kt wind blowing across the holding course and you did not correct for it in the hold, then 3 minutes later when you begin the inbound segment of the hold you will have been blown about 1 mile to the left or right of where you want to be. At 1.5 miles from the airport, that is just about 35 degrees off of the inbound course. Any stronger wind, or unfavorable errors flying the pattern, and the localizer may be giving incorrect guidance. [I'm not trying to upset anyone with this admitadly academic exercise, but as "homework" after passing my last BFR I was given the friendly advise to go a read a page a day from the AIM. I found the section on localizers interesting because I had previously had the incorrect idea in my head that they are a special form of VOR. They use the same frequencies, but operate on a totally different principal and their behavior outside of that 35 degree window can be quite bizarre.] |
#118
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"Ron Garrison" wrote:
The only problem with it is that the internal VOR capability on the handset (ICOM A22) doesn't work well because the antenna orientation is wrong Have you considered a steep turn? A couple of gees should be sufficient to get you decent VOR reception :-) but during a real failure I'll choose communications with ATC over a NAV radio every time. No question about that. If the ceiling is below the MVA, I vote for vectors to the nearest ASR-equipped facility. |
#119
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"Roy Smith" wrote in message ... Have you considered a steep turn? A couple of gees should be sufficient to get you decent VOR reception :-) Yeah, and so much more entertaining than tilting the radio. |
#120
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"Ron Garrison" wrote...
I disagree that the ability to navigate to a place once means you can do it again. AIM 1-1-9.b clearly states that localizer goidance is only valid out to 35 degrees each side of the course, and that the back course is specifically not to be used for guidance unless a back course procedure exists. Assume a 90kt holding speed and an NDB colocated with the localizer antenna to identify the fix. If there were a 20kt wind blowing across the holding course and you did not correct for it in the hold, then 3 minutes later when you begin the inbound segment of the hold you will have been blown about 1 mile to the left or right of where you want to be. At 1.5 miles from the airport, that is just about 35 degrees off of the inbound course. Any stronger wind, or unfavorable errors flying the pattern, and the localizer may be giving incorrect guidance. All your information after the second sentence is good. However, it does not bear directly on your first statement. Holding over an NDB is a standard, practiced procedure even without any backup NAVAIDs. Hopefully, if you are holding in IMC over an NDB, you have at least some idea of the wind, and can make an initial correction on your first outbound leg. If you don't, you must make a larger correction on the inbound course, but you can still navigate back to the NDB. If you are using other NAVAIDs as backups or crosschecks, that does not mean you ignore your primary NAVAID. Assume you are holding over that NDB collocated with the LOC. If your planned inbound course in the hold is close to the LOC front course, you can use the LOC as a valid crosscheck, and possibly use it to fine-tune your inbound heading in the crosswind. However, if your inbound course in the hole was NOT coincident with the LOC course, you simply would not choose to use the LOC as a backup. Still, you can use the NDB -- your primary NAVAID -- and get back to the NDB. Flying good IFR in IMC in "ideal" conditions (no wind, no turbulence, no vertigo, no emergencies) requires practice. Flying in less-than-ideal conditions is more challenging, and takes more practice and experience. As you build on your experience, you will discover what YOU can do in specific situations. |
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