A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Naval Aviation
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

The Swedish Model: How to build a jet fighter.



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old May 10th 08, 01:08 AM posted to rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,sci.military.naval
Douglas Eagleson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 33
Default The Swedish Model: How to build a jet fighter.

On May 9, 4:57*pm, Dan wrote:
Douglas Eagleson wrote:

snip

The russian mig-30 that literally stops in mid

flight and recovers, is another example. A forward canard allows this.


* * The "cobra" maneuver is not a very good combat move. Do a simple
free body diagram to see what happens to acceleration and velocity
vectors. The MiG is a sitting duck throughout the maneuver and takes a
long time to recover.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired


The maneuver is obviously only a technical ability. As dog fighting
goes a well planned first approach with missles always wins.

A dogfight as a rule can be forced with the lost aircraft. A sucker
aircraft and absorb/take the radar.

after this occur a true missilefree dogfight happens.

All free battle has an AMERICAN superior first strike built in. If
this is lost, then what happens is a secondary senario occurs. An
litteral aircraft to aircraft and attritionloss war. When attrition
dictates a winner what happens?

So large air battle planning fails when aircraft performance only
dictates.

  #12  
Old May 10th 08, 01:48 AM posted to rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,sci.military.naval
Dan[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 465
Default The Swedish Model: How to build a jet fighter.

Douglas Eagleson wrote:
On May 9, 4:57 pm, Dan wrote:
Douglas Eagleson wrote:

snip

The russian mig-30 that literally stops in mid

flight and recovers, is another example. A forward canard allows this.

The "cobra" maneuver is not a very good combat move. Do a simple
free body diagram to see what happens to acceleration and velocity
vectors. The MiG is a sitting duck throughout the maneuver and takes a
long time to recover.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired


The maneuver is obviously only a technical ability.


It's only good for air shows.

As dog fighting
goes a well planned first approach with missles always wins.


Not always. What happens if the missile fails to perform or the
target outmaneuvers it?


A dogfight as a rule can be forced with the lost aircraft. A sucker
aircraft and absorb/take the radar.


Please translate.



after this occur a true missilefree dogfight happens.

All free battle has an AMERICAN superior first strike built in. If
this is lost, then what happens is a secondary senario occurs. An
litteral aircraft to aircraft and attritionloss war. When attrition
dictates a winner what happens?

All wars are a function of attrition.


So large air battle planning fails when aircraft performance only
dictates.


Not to put to fine a point on things, but ALL battle planning is
limited to by the assets on hand to include available technology.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
  #14  
Old May 10th 08, 07:26 AM posted to rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,sci.military.naval
Roger Conroy[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 30
Default The Swedish Model: How to build a jet fighter.


"Dan" wrote in message
...
Douglas Eagleson wrote:
On May 9, 4:57 pm, Dan wrote:
Douglas Eagleson wrote:

snip

The russian mig-30 that literally stops in mid

flight and recovers, is another example. A forward canard allows this.
The "cobra" maneuver is not a very good combat move. Do a simple
free body diagram to see what happens to acceleration and velocity
vectors. The MiG is a sitting duck throughout the maneuver and takes a
long time to recover.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired


The maneuver is obviously only a technical ability.


It's only good for air shows.

As dog fighting
goes a well planned first approach with missles always wins.


Not always. What happens if the missile fails to perform or the target
outmaneuvers it?


A dogfight as a rule can be forced with the lost aircraft. A sucker
aircraft and absorb/take the radar.


Please translate.



after this occur a true missilefree dogfight happens.

All free battle has an AMERICAN superior first strike built in. If
this is lost, then what happens is a secondary senario occurs. An
litteral aircraft to aircraft and attritionloss war. When attrition
dictates a winner what happens?

All wars are a function of attrition.


It might not always be readily apparent but not all wars involve Americans
either.
But why are we arguing with a bot anyway?

So large air battle planning fails when aircraft performance only
dictates.


Not to put to fine a point on things, but ALL battle planning is limited
to by the assets on hand to include available technology.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired



  #15  
Old May 10th 08, 01:03 PM posted to rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,sci.military.naval
St. John Smythe
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16
Default The Swedish Model: How to build a jet fighter.

Roger Conroy wrote:
But why are we arguing with a bot anyway?


Got to admit I too suspected a bot.

Bot or not, the engagement doesn't seem worth the fuel.

--
sjs
  #16  
Old May 10th 08, 01:59 PM posted to rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,sci.military.naval
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default The Swedish Model: How to build a jet fighter.

On Fri, 09 May 2008 19:48:38 -0500, Dan wrote:

Douglas Eagleson wrote:
On May 9, 4:57 pm, Dan wrote:
Douglas Eagleson wrote:

snip

The russian mig-30 that literally stops in mid

flight and recovers, is another example. A forward canard allows this.
The "cobra" maneuver is not a very good combat move. Do a simple
free body diagram to see what happens to acceleration and velocity
vectors. The MiG is a sitting duck throughout the maneuver and takes a
long time to recover.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired


The maneuver is obviously only a technical ability.



It's only good for air shows.

And impressing the Chicks.

As dog fighting
goes a well planned first approach with missles always wins.


A well planned anything usually wins over an ad-hoc response.

Not always. What happens if the missile fails to perform or the
target outmaneuvers it?

Plan B. There always needs to be a Plan B.

A dogfight as a rule can be forced with the lost aircraft. A sucker
aircraft and absorb/take the radar.


Please translate.

That would be nice.


after this occur a true missilefree dogfight happens.

All free battle has an AMERICAN superior first strike built in. If
this is lost, then what happens is a secondary senario occurs. An
litteral aircraft to aircraft and attritionloss war. When attrition
dictates a winner what happens?

All wars are a function of attrition.

Even if it is simply an attrition of will. A Semi-decent example
would be the Iraqi Air force in both conflicts. They didn't even try.

So large air battle planning fails when aircraft performance only
dictates.


Not to put to fine a point on things, but ALL battle planning is
limited to by the assets on hand to include available technology.

Which would of course include Intel, such as the enemies weapon
platforms capabilities. There is a reason the "Top-Speed" of US Naval
Vessels is never mentioned, or talked about in only general terms. If
you know what the other guy is capable of, you've got one leg up in
the planning process. If you know where he is at & what he is going
to do (tactics) you've got another leg up. Some of the major naval
battles of WW II were won by pure dumb luck. Both sides planned, but
one found out the location of the other first.
--
"Before all else, be armed" -- Machiavelli
  #17  
Old May 10th 08, 02:01 PM posted to rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,sci.military.naval
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default The Swedish Model: How to build a jet fighter.

On Sat, 10 May 2008 08:26:43 +0200, "Roger Conroy"
wrote:


"Dan" wrote in message
...
Douglas Eagleson wrote:
On May 9, 4:57 pm, Dan wrote:
Douglas Eagleson wrote:

snip

The russian mig-30 that literally stops in mid

flight and recovers, is another example. A forward canard allows this.
The "cobra" maneuver is not a very good combat move. Do a simple
free body diagram to see what happens to acceleration and velocity
vectors. The MiG is a sitting duck throughout the maneuver and takes a
long time to recover.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

The maneuver is obviously only a technical ability.


It's only good for air shows.

As dog fighting
goes a well planned first approach with missles always wins.


Not always. What happens if the missile fails to perform or the target
outmaneuvers it?


A dogfight as a rule can be forced with the lost aircraft. A sucker
aircraft and absorb/take the radar.


Please translate.



after this occur a true missilefree dogfight happens.

All free battle has an AMERICAN superior first strike built in. If
this is lost, then what happens is a secondary senario occurs. An
litteral aircraft to aircraft and attritionloss war. When attrition
dictates a winner what happens?

All wars are a function of attrition.


It might not always be readily apparent but not all wars involve Americans
either.
But why are we arguing with a bot anyway?

Perhaps not directly, but since the US is the number one Arms Dealer
in the world, perhaps we are if even just by proxy.

So large air battle planning fails when aircraft performance only
dictates.


Not to put to fine a point on things, but ALL battle planning is limited
to by the assets on hand to include available technology.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired


--
"Before all else, be armed" -- Machiavelli
  #19  
Old May 10th 08, 11:27 PM posted to rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,sci.military.naval
Douglas Eagleson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 33
Default The Swedish Model: How to build a jet fighter.

On May 10, 2:50*pm, (Richard Casady)
wrote:
On Fri, 09 May 2008 23:21:39 -0700, Steve Hix

wrote:
In article ,
(Richard Casady) wrote:


On Fri, 09 May 2008 21:45:15 GMT, Ed Rasimus
wrote:


And what will happen when someone invents a doppler radar that doesn't
see ground clutter?


I was under the impression that look down, shoot down had been around
for many years.


Ed was gigging Eagleson. Who isn't likely to notice, sadly.


While some think Eagleson is a 'bot, my theory is mental illness.

Casady


I talk funny it is mental illness. What a kick.
  #20  
Old May 10th 08, 11:54 PM posted to rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,sci.military.naval
WaltBJ
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 38
Default The Swedish Model: How to build a jet fighter.

On May 10, 3:27 pm, Douglas Eagleson
wrote:
SNIP

I talk funny it is mental illness. What a kick.

SNIP:
That illness is truly unfortunate and you can't help it.
What you can do to help yourself is to educate yourself in
aerodynamics and later on, fighter capabilities and tactics. Your
conclusions are faulty because you do not truly understand these
subjects. I recommend, at the least, a visit to your local library and
spend a month or so studying these areas. At the present time you are
an amateur trying to argue with professionals who devoted a career to
the subject.
Walt BJ

 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
LETS BUILD A MODEL PLANE adelsonsl Aviation Photos 1 May 16th 07 11:10 PM
Swedish! Owning 3 March 3rd 06 01:44 AM
The end of the Saab Viggen - The legendary Swedish jet fighter Iwan Bogels Simulators 0 April 19th 05 07:22 PM
The Very Last Operational New German Fighter Model Of WW2 Garrison Hilliard Military Aviation 13 January 13th 04 04:31 PM
RV Quick Build build times... [email protected] Home Built 2 December 17th 03 04:29 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.