Best Software and Hardware for Turn Area Task?

"Tony Smolder" wrote...
So reading the biography for 2 out of 3 (one of the three I know wants
the "dumb-ass" rules) I cannot deduce which one of the other two will
represent the racers and not force a rule we do not want.

What do you mean 'we', Kimosabe?

This 'racer' happens to prefer flying a little farther to timing my finishes to
the minute. I also fail to see how needing to be 500 feet AGL a mile out from
the center of the finish cylinder cramps my style. But, then again, I don't
believe the elected President of the United States is living in the White House,
either... 8^)

Marc

Guys:

I wrote my bio carefully, and I meant it:

"I think rules should be structured to make contest flying safe, fun,
popular, and simple to run and fly, in roughly that order. I have many
ideas,
but I am not running for rules committee to advance any fixed agenda
of rules changes. Instead, I look forward to working with contest
pilots and the rules committee to further these goals."

I have been persuaded that many of my bright sounding ideas were
flawed in the past. I'm still "listening" on this one, and the 500'
finish (though I think it's important to listen to both sides, and to
hear opinions of the quiet and those low down on the scoresheet as
well as the vocal and the top 5). More importantly, I'm not running
for RC to ram my particular opinions down anyone's throat. Despite
occasional glitches and controversies, the RCs democratic and
consultative approach has been superb, and I fully endorse that. I
stand for the goals -- safe, fun, popular, and simple to run and fly
--not a particular means of achieving those goals.

John Cochrane
BB

There is a vote in progress for the vacant seat on the Rules
committee..Now is the time to voice your opinion of the "dumb-ass"
15 minute rule....Vote for the member that will listen to your
complaints and represent you and not force a rule we do not want.

Sam Fly

Can the other two please present their view on the "dumb-ass" rules
please? I want to race, go fast, and know who won based on clear,
simple rules, such as Distance/Time = Speed.

No 15 minute add
No 500' minimum finish
Get what you fly!

Thanks,

Tony Smolder - ASA contest manager
TS1
racing every weekend and loving it!

Eric Greenwell wrote in message ...

That's what I want to do also, and I could never see how trying to
arrive at particular time was "racing". It reminded me rallying in a
sports car, which involved following directions very carefully, and
maintaining precise speeds; I.e., nothing like the sports car racing I
used to do. I didn't think is was "unfair", I just thought it wasn't
racing and wasn't fun.

Well guess what, with the TAT that is exactly what you are doing,
again. Just going fast isn't always going to win, you now have to
adjust your distance for the macready speed you are getting in the
conditions, and just being the fastest won't always win. That is an
improvement? I don't think so!

Maybe I was doing it wrong, but it didn't seem anything like a "basic
navigation task", which I think is getting to were you want to go.
Getting there at the time you wanted to, in a sailplane, with variable
weather, just seemed like a crap shoot to me. I won some and I lost
some, but I never felt like it was my navigation that resulted in
either, but mostly luck.

Huh? Distance to go, time remaining, thermal strength, altitude
available. Do the math, get home when you need to get home. Fastest
wins. Now you still have to do the same math, plus factor in your
achieved speed to decide how far to go before going home. If the
problem is 7000' start heights with a 2:30 time limit, then lower the
start and lengthen the time! A 2:30 race is ridiculous anyway if you
are getting high enough to get any advantage out of your start.

Kirk

"Marc Ramsey" wrote in message news:E01Za.148

What do you mean 'we', Kimosabe?

This 'racer' happens to prefer flying a little farther to timing my finishes to
the minute. I also fail to see how needing to be 500 feet AGL a mile out from
the center of the finish cylinder cramps my style. But, then again, I don't
believe the elected President of the United States is living in the White House,
either... 8^)

Marc

Well that explains everything! All these new "feelgood, make it easy,
take away the pilot's choices, don't let anyone do anything that might
be dangerous, warm fuzzy, you all play nice together" rules are THE
REVENGE OF THE DEMOCRATS!!!!

Just wait until Arnold is the gov of Ca! Bwahahaha!

Seriously, I don't see how going a few more miles slower should beat
going a few fewer miles faster. This 'racer' happens to prefer flying
a little faster, and preferably further too - so make the min time
longer! 2:30 is hardly worth rigging for! And if you want to finish
at 500 ft AGL, by all means do so - just don't force me to do it if
there is no reason for it. Funny how the rest of the world, who are
apparently much better glider pilots than we are, don't have these
kind of "mommy" rules. I wonder if we can get Lance to take up
gliding...

Kirk
Off racing in a few hours

"Marc Ramsey" wrote in message ...
"Tony Smolder" wrote...
So reading the biography for 2 out of 3 (one of the three I know wants
the "dumb-ass" rules) I cannot deduce which one of the other two will
represent the racers and not force a rule we do not want.

What do you mean 'we', Kimosabe?

This 'racer' happens to prefer flying a little farther to timing my finishes to
the minute. I also fail to see how needing to be 500 feet AGL a mile out from
the center of the finish cylinder cramps my style. But, then again, I don't
believe the elected President of the United States is living in the White House,
either... 8^)

Marc

Marc, you are the first person I've heard from who actually likes the
15 minute rule, so the "WE" was only my exposure to the 50 or so
racers I've talked to this year (ASA and Region 9). Hopefully "WE"
will get a chance to vote for changes to the rules in the future,
instead of having it implemented with no notice or discussion
involving us.

Tony

"Kirk Stant" wrote...
Just wait until Arnold is the gov of Ca! Bwahahaha!

Seriously, I don't see how going a few more miles slower should beat
going a few fewer miles faster. This 'racer' happens to prefer flying
a little faster, and preferably further too - so make the min time
longer! 2:30 is hardly worth rigging for! And if you want to finish
at 500 ft AGL, by all means do so - just don't force me to do it if
there is no reason for it. Funny how the rest of the world, who are
apparently much better glider pilots than we are, don't have these
kind of "mommy" rules. I wonder if we can get Lance to take up
gliding...

I was at in contest with a bunch of obviously REPUBLICAN racers who hated the
500 foot rule so much that they browbeat the CD into using a GPS finish gate
instead. Oh boy, nothing I like more than trying to hook the gate while
avoiding gliders coming at me from THREE different directions, then having to
watch out for people going UNDER me while I'm making a minimal pattern. Now,
that's RACING!

Marc

In article ,
says...
Marc, you are the first person I've heard from who actually likes the
15 minute rule, so the "WE" was only my exposure to the 50 or so
racers I've talked to this year (ASA and Region 9).

Here's your second person (or third, if you count John Cochrane).
--
!Replace DECIMAL.POINT in my e-mail address with just a . to reply
directly

Eric Greenwell
Richland, WA (USA)

And a fourth,

Udo



"Eric Greenwell" wrote in message
.. .
In article ,
says...
Marc, you are the first person I've heard from who actually likes the
15 minute rule, so the "WE" was only my exposure to the 50 or so
racers I've talked to this year (ASA and Region 9).

Here's your second person (or third, if you count John Cochrane).
--
!Replace DECIMAL.POINT in my e-mail address with just a . to reply
directly

Eric Greenwell
Richland, WA (USA)

In article , stant2
@mindspring.com says...

Well guess what, with the TAT that is exactly what you are doing,
again. Just going fast isn't always going to win, you now have to
adjust your distance for the macready speed you are getting in the
conditions, and just being the fastest won't always win. That is an
improvement? I don't think so!

As I mentioned, I prefer assigned tasks, not the PST or the TAT, so
I'm with you on this one.


Maybe I was doing it wrong, but it didn't seem anything like a "basic
navigation task", which I think is getting to were you want to go.
Getting there at the time you wanted to, in a sailplane, with variable
weather, just seemed like a crap shoot to me. I won some and I lost
some, but I never felt like it was my navigation that resulted in
either, but mostly luck.

Huh? Distance to go, time remaining, thermal strength, altitude
available. Do the math, get home when you need to get home.

I still don't understand what you are talking about: in a PST, there
is no "distance to go", it's a "time to go". Converting the time left
to distance is where I have problems, because there are two components
to the calculation: 1) cross-country speed (anticipated thermal
strength, so it's a guess) 2) final glide speed (depends on altitude
available, AND anticipated thermal strength, so it's a guess,too). So,
while I'm trying to race (getting the best XC speed I can), I'm also
juggling turnpoints, trying to figure which ones will make the task
long enough so I can fly as fast as possible, but still get home just
at the minimum time.

If I were sitting at home, it'd be an interesting problem to work on,
but I don't think it's fun in a sailplane. With the 15 minute rule, I
feel I can drop the calculations and just concentrate on going fast,
because it's easy for me to pick a task that takes long enough, though
it might be 15-20 minutes longer than the minimum.

If the
problem is 7000' start heights with a 2:30 time limit, then lower the
start and lengthen the time!

I'd also prefer lower starts (5000' agl, say), and it might be safer
when the thermals are going higher, because there wouldn't be the
crowding at the top a thermal as every pilot tries to eek out the last
foot before starting.

A 2:30 race is ridiculous anyway if you
are getting high enough to get any advantage out of your start.

Over the years (25 in my case), at least in Regionals, it seems the
trend has been to shorten the task time. At Ephrata, we often have 3
hour tasks on 6 hour days. I'd prefer longer tasks of at least 4
hours, so we aren't flying only at the peak of the day, and spend some
time in weaker conditions.

--
!Replace DECIMAL.POINT in my e-mail address with just a . to reply
directly

Eric Greenwell
Richland, WA (USA)

(Andy Durbin) wrote:

How good predictions are is a matter of opinion, but GPS_LOG WinCE
provides just about all you asked for.

Henryk Birecki

You need to have a good prediction of your finish time based on
current ring setting, task distance left to go, average speed up to
now, and current wind estimate. I also find a graphic depiction of the
turn areas to be very useful.

In addition you need the ability to move the turnpoint in the area
before you reach it and to easily reset it to the point that you
actually turn at. Of course those turnpoint moves should result in a
new estimate of time to complete the task.

Look carefully at candidate systems to see if they support these
features. There are different methods for moving the turnpoint, some
systems do not use the wind estimate to calculate the finish time,
some systems do not support the much needed "turn now" function.

Andy (GY)