Which airplane for teenagers to build????

You might want to check out a couple of the following:

EAA used to have something in their education division called "school
flight". Give them a call.

Kit Plane magazine carried a coupe of series about school kids
building planes. One was a special ed group that built a 5151.
Another was about Dr. Ben Milsbaugh of Colorado that put together a
Fischer Celebrety at his high school in conjunction with his
involvement as the head of the Rocky Mt division of the CAP aerospace
education program. He used to have seminars at the AF academy in
Colorado Springs for teachers and was a great inspiration and driving
force in getting aerospace ed into the classroom (prior to the NCLB
fiasco that has reduced classrooms into "teach to the test" process
that has eliminated real world learning).

Get a copy of "Plane Crazy" and watch what happens to someone who
bites off more than they can chew. Keep it simple so the kids can see
progress in short periods of time. Fisher products, Loehle stuff,
maybe a KR2, Pietenpol, Teenie Two if you can get plans, Sonex, or
restore a classic/antique.

I got half way through a Baby Lakes before the upper administration
found out and had to take it home. Funny. An Aviation Science class
with an airplane? The building principal thought it was cool.
School lawyer had problems with it. Check with admin first.

Have you considered building the Skypup? Granted it's an ultralight,
but it has the advantages that it is simple to construct (wood, foam,
fabric), it will likely be finished in the course of the students
tenure at the school, and with a minimum of flight time can actually
be flown. Disadvantages are few, it is not a kit, but is built
strictly from plans and it has limited flight opportunities as it
must be flown in light winds.
Roger

On Apr 25, 8:35 pm, Anthony W wrote:
Have you considered the Rag Wing Aviation Storch? It's all wood and is
supposed to be rather simple to build Also it's a 2 seater so you could
take a students for a ride in the plane they helped build.

Tony



Andrew wrote:
Dear Aviation Enthusiasts,
I teach math in an inner city high school in Southern Illinois.
I've been studying airplane projects to build myself alone but also
have thought about forming a high school aviation club to build an
SNIP

Andrew wrote:
Dear Aviation Enthusiasts,

I knew I'd seen this way back on the Zenith website but I couldn't find it
until just now. They have a section for building aircraft as a school
project. You may have already found it but here it is.

http://zenithair.com/misc/school/project.html

On 24 Apr 2007 17:08:13 -0700, Andrew wrote:

Dear Aviation Enthusiasts,
I teach math in an inner city high school in Southern Illinois.
I've been studying airplane projects to build myself alone but also
have thought about forming a high school aviation club to build an
airplane. There is at least one one high school building the Zenith
701 and Aircraft Spruce donated a Stolp Starduster kit to another high
school. The airplanes that I have researched and would like to build
myself include the following: Wittman Tailwind and Buttercup, Long-EZ,
Cozy Mark IV, KR-2, Christavia, Sonex Vision, Bearhawk, Zenair Zodiac,
Zenair 601 and Zenair 701, Thorpe T-18 , BD-4, and the Falconar to
name a few. Many of these at some point I've convinced myself,
"that's the airplane for me" and just before ordering the plans.....I
change my mind. I've been studying homebuilt airplanes for a couple of
years now and there probably isn't a homebuilt design that I haven't
read about. I know the least about wooden airplanes but wouldn't
exclude this type of building material in my choice.
I've talked with the welding department at the high school and
the instructor said he'd help weld a 4130 fuselage as they have a tig
welder. Keep in mind though the idea that this is a group high school
project. I'm not sure which type of project that would afford an
opportunity for high school students (rather unskilled) to get
involved with, to contribute to by using their hands. For example
with a wooden wing, probably each student could make a rib for the
wings. With an aluminum airplane students also each could make an
aluminum rib, the type that are formed around a wooden template with a
mallet. It seems like mistakes on a rib wouldn't affect a huge
component and quality control could be managed. Ruin a rib, toss it
aside and try again. I'm not sure if a mistake in welding a 4130 tube
fuselage could be corrected easily. Basically you want students to
contribute with simple tasks where mistakes could be fixed without
costing too much. With an aluminum airplane students could drill
holes, deburr and rivet. I'm not sure how easily mistakes in aluminum
can be repaired, say someone who dents the skin when riveting. How do
you fix a mistake on an aluminum skin, say someone drills some holes
wrong? Can they be filled?
Composite construction involves dangerous chemicals which
wouldn't bother me as I used to be in the chemical and fume rich
electroplating business, but you don't want students breaking out in
rashes. However, on a composite airplane there might be opportunity
for students to perform the labor intensive sanding, sanding and
sanding. So the basic 2 questions are 1) Which type of airplane
building method would provide the most opportunity for unskilled high
school students to learn and contribute to .......aluminum, tube and
fabric, composite or wood. 2) Based on your choice in #1 which
specific airplane then would be the best candidate to build?
Our high school is known as the East St. Louis "Flyers" being
influenced by a close proximity to St. Louis made famous by Charles
Lindbergh and the "Spirit of St. Louis Airplane."


Thanks,
Andrew

Good on you for being interested in doing more than the minimum. You
might want to check out the murphy Rebel kit. Murphy used to and may
still offer kits to school groups at cost or less.
Drew Dalgleish
Murphy Rebel # 247
C-FHO

On Apr 28, 8:38 am, (Drew Dalgleish)
wrote:
On 24 Apr 2007 17:08:13 -0700, Andrew wrote:





Dear Aviation Enthusiasts,
I teach math in an inner city high school in Southern Illinois.
I've been studying airplane projects to build myself alone but also
have thought about forming a high school aviation club to build an
airplane. There is at least one one high school building the Zenith
701 and Aircraft Spruce donated a Stolp Starduster kit to another high
school. The airplanes that I have researched and would like to build
myself include the following: Wittman Tailwind and Buttercup, Long-EZ,
Cozy Mark IV, KR-2, Christavia, Sonex Vision, Bearhawk, Zenair Zodiac,
Zenair 601 and Zenair 701, Thorpe T-18 , BD-4, and the Falconar to
name a few. Many of these at some point I've convinced myself,
"that's the airplane for me" and just before ordering the plans.....I
change my mind. I've been studying homebuilt airplanes for a couple of
years now and there probably isn't a homebuilt design that I haven't
read about. I know the least about wooden airplanes but wouldn't
exclude this type of building material in my choice.
I've talked with the welding department at the high school and
the instructor said he'd help weld a 4130 fuselage as they have a tig
welder. Keep in mind though the idea that this is a group high school
project. I'm not sure which type of project that would afford an
opportunity for high school students (rather unskilled) to get
involved with, to contribute to by using their hands. For example
with a wooden wing, probably each student could make a rib for the
wings. With an aluminum airplane students also each could make an
aluminum rib, the type that are formed around a wooden template with a
mallet. It seems like mistakes on a rib wouldn't affect a huge
component and quality control could be managed. Ruin a rib, toss it
aside and try again. I'm not sure if a mistake in welding a 4130 tube
fuselage could be corrected easily. Basically you want students to
contribute with simple tasks where mistakes could be fixed without
costing too much. With an aluminum airplane students could drill
holes, deburr and rivet. I'm not sure how easily mistakes in aluminum
can be repaired, say someone who dents the skin when riveting. How do
you fix a mistake on an aluminum skin, say someone drills some holes
wrong? Can they be filled?
Composite construction involves dangerous chemicals which
wouldn't bother me as I used to be in the chemical and fume rich
electroplating business, but you don't want students breaking out in
rashes. However, on a composite airplane there might be opportunity
for students to perform the labor intensive sanding, sanding and
sanding. So the basic 2 questions are 1) Which type of airplane
building method would provide the most opportunity for unskilled high
school students to learn and contribute to .......aluminum, tube and
fabric, composite or wood. 2) Based on your choice in #1 which
specific airplane then would be the best candidate to build?
Our high school is known as the East St. Louis "Flyers" being
influenced by a close proximity to St. Louis made famous by Charles
Lindbergh and the "Spirit of St. Louis Airplane."

Thanks,
Andrew

Good on you for being interested in doing more than the minimum. You
might want to check out the murphy Rebel kit. Murphy used to and may
still offer kits to school groups at cost or less.
Drew Dalgleish
Murphy Rebel # 247
C-FHO- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If you want to build in metal the Thatcher CX4 looks fairly easy and
not too many $$$ . Just my $0.02.

Frank M Hitlaw At my Secret world HQ

If you want to build in metal the Thatcher CX4 looks fairly easy and
not too many $$$ . Just my $0.02.

Frank M Hitlaw At my Secret world HQ
Be aware that when I googled "thatcher cx-4" i received a warning that
there was a trojan virus when the site was clicked on. I use avg antivirus.
Pat

("patrick mitchel" wrote)
Be aware that when I googled "thatcher cx-4" i received a warning that
there was a trojan virus when the site was clicked on. I use avg
antivirus.


I use AVG and, like you, Googled "thatcher cx-4". I received no such
warning.

YMMV.


Montblack
http://www.warbirdalley.com/t28.htm
T-28 Trojan (just like this one) is in the hangar across from where I was
yesterday + will be today. g

"Montblack" wrote in
:

("patrick mitchel" wrote)
Be aware that when I googled "thatcher cx-4" i received a warning
that there was a trojan virus when the site was clicked on. I use avg
antivirus.


I use AVG and, like you, Googled "thatcher cx-4". I received no such
warning.

YMMV.

If you agree to the "Active X" payload, this is Trojan Virus you'll get:

See Attachment: Thatcher Trojan.jpg

"Andrew" wrote in message
oups.com...
Dear Aviation Enthusiasts,
I teach math in an inner city high school in Southern Illinois.
Thanks,
Andrew


Andrew,

Come on down to Pinckneyville for the flyin in May just after schools out
for the summer. May 18, 19, and 20. We have some homebuilts at the flyin
of various types. I have been working with school projects for many years.
We were having high school shop classes build airplanes forty years ago.
They did very well also.

As for a plane for a school project I would recommend a Pietenpol Air
Camper. It is all wood and can be built with simple tools. Lots of parts
for lots of kids to make and quality control is pretty simple. Materials
are relatively inexpensive so the mistakes can be consigned to the trash
without great pain in the wallet. The Piet will even fly with a Model A
Ford engine if you wish, although a little Continental A-65 would be a
better choice. You can pick up a good A-65 for under $4000 and build t he
entire airplane ready to fly for under $10,000. Hard to do that with any
other airplane these days.

Highflyer
Highflight Aviation Services
Pinckneyville Airport ( PJY )

I-64 east to Exit 50, south of Route 127 28 miles to Pinckneyville Airport.
Right alongside the highway. Highflight Aviation is the southernmost
hangar, Hangar D. Cheers.

Andrew

This kind of a project was discussed several years ago and it was
pointed out the liability associated with a project like this.

As I recall, the school let them build the bird with the proviso that
it never be flown (

May be some others that remember the prior discussion on this subject
and can add more detail?

Also a number of years ago (may still be there?),there was a program
in Seattle that used inner city youths under a A & E to build 49.9% of
your airplane. You bought the material and did 50.1% of work. Boeing
helped support the program and hired some of the individuals after
they learned some airplane skills I was told. Possible some of our
Seattle types might comment on this program and have a contact you
could contact for info on it and how they got around the liability?

Big John
***************************************


On 24 Apr 2007 17:08:13 -0700, Andrew wrote:

Dear Aviation Enthusiasts,
I teach math in an inner city high school in Southern Illinois.
I've been studying airplane projects to build myself alone but also
have thought about forming a high school aviation club to build an
airplane. There is at least one one high school building the Zenith
701 and Aircraft Spruce donated a Stolp Starduster kit to another high
school. The airplanes that I have researched and would like to build
myself include the following: Wittman Tailwind and Buttercup, Long-EZ,
Cozy Mark IV, KR-2, Christavia, Sonex Vision, Bearhawk, Zenair Zodiac,
Zenair 601 and Zenair 701, Thorpe T-18 , BD-4, and the Falconar to
name a few. Many of these at some point I've convinced myself,
"that's the airplane for me" and just before ordering the plans.....I
change my mind. I've been studying homebuilt airplanes for a couple of
years now and there probably isn't a homebuilt design that I haven't
read about. I know the least about wooden airplanes but wouldn't
exclude this type of building material in my choice.
I've talked with the welding department at the high school and
the instructor said he'd help weld a 4130 fuselage as they have a tig
welder. Keep in mind though the idea that this is a group high school
project. I'm not sure which type of project that would afford an
opportunity for high school students (rather unskilled) to get
involved with, to contribute to by using their hands. For example
with a wooden wing, probably each student could make a rib for the
wings. With an aluminum airplane students also each could make an
aluminum rib, the type that are formed around a wooden template with a
mallet. It seems like mistakes on a rib wouldn't affect a huge
component and quality control could be managed. Ruin a rib, toss it
aside and try again. I'm not sure if a mistake in welding a 4130 tube
fuselage could be corrected easily. Basically you want students to
contribute with simple tasks where mistakes could be fixed without
costing too much. With an aluminum airplane students could drill
holes, deburr and rivet. I'm not sure how easily mistakes in aluminum
can be repaired, say someone who dents the skin when riveting. How do
you fix a mistake on an aluminum skin, say someone drills some holes
wrong? Can they be filled?
Composite construction involves dangerous chemicals which
wouldn't bother me as I used to be in the chemical and fume rich
electroplating business, but you don't want students breaking out in
rashes. However, on a composite airplane there might be opportunity
for students to perform the labor intensive sanding, sanding and
sanding. So the basic 2 questions are 1) Which type of airplane
building method would provide the most opportunity for unskilled high
school students to learn and contribute to .......aluminum, tube and
fabric, composite or wood. 2) Based on your choice in #1 which
specific airplane then would be the best candidate to build?
Our high school is known as the East St. Louis "Flyers" being
influenced by a close proximity to St. Louis made famous by Charles
Lindbergh and the "Spirit of St. Louis Airplane."


Thanks,
Andrew