Backwash Causes Lift?

writes:

Nope. The lift/drag vectors are different as the AOA
changes.

Powered aircraft are gliders when the engines are off.

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

writes:

Nope. The lift/drag vectors are different as the AOA
changes.

Powered aircraft are gliders when the engines are off.

WEll, your engine has been off for some time and you're not a glider.


Bertie

Le Chaud Lapin wrote:
If you
don't like the concept that the top of the wing is being sucked upward
by that lower pressure

It is not a matter of whether I like it or not. It is something that
simply does not happen. There is no sucking force.

then think of it this way. Imagine a cross-
section of the wing. The top surface of the wing forms a line. The
air just above this line has lower pressure. The air below this line
(inside the wing) has normal pressure.

So the air below the line is
pressing upward against it with more force than the air above is
pressing down.


I think you mis-understood me here. When I say the air below the line
is pressing upward, I am not referring to the air pressing upward on
the bottom of the wing. I am referring to the air _inside_ the wing
pressing upward on the underside of the top surface of the wing. The
air above the wing top surface has lower than normal pressure. The
air inside the wing has normal pressure. So it presses upward on the
top surface of the wing. This is lift generated by the top surface of
the wing.

Phil

Phil wrote in news:1191952801.357185.176540
@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:


Le Chaud Lapin wrote:
If you
don't like the concept that the top of the wing is being sucked upward
by that lower pressure

It is not a matter of whether I like it or not. It is something that
simply does not happen. There is no sucking force.

then think of it this way. Imagine a cross-
section of the wing. The top surface of the wing forms a line. The
air just above this line has lower pressure. The air below this line
(inside the wing) has normal pressure.

So the air below the line is
pressing upward against it with more force than the air above is
pressing down.


I think you mis-understood me here. When I say the air below the line
is pressing upward, I am not referring to the air pressing upward on
the bottom of the wing. I am referring to the air _inside_ the wing
pressing upward on the underside of the top surface of the wing. The
air above the wing top surface has lower than normal pressure. The
air inside the wing has normal pressure. So it presses upward on the
top surface of the wing. This is lift generated by the top surface of
the wing.


What if your wing doesn't have any air in it?

Bertie

On Oct 9, 1:00 pm, Phil wrote:
I think you mis-understood me here. When I say the air below the line
is pressing upward, I am not referring to the air pressing upward on
the bottom of the wing. I am referring to the air _inside_ the wing
pressing upward on the underside of the top surface of the wing. The
air above the wing top surface has lower than normal pressure. The
air inside the wing has normal pressure. So it presses upward on the
top surface of the wing. This is lift generated by the top surface of
the wing.

Air _inside_ the wing. Hmm...please don't take this the wrong way, I
can assure I don't mean it as an insult, but what do you do for a
living and what is your technical bacground (math, physics, etc.) if
you don't mind my asking?

If air inside the wing pushes upward on the underside of the top of
the wing, it also pushes downward on the overside of the bottom of the
wing, thus nullifying any effect of the air inside the wing.

-Le Chaud Lapin-

Le Chaud Lapin wrote in
oups.com:

On Oct 9, 1:00 pm, Phil wrote:
I think you mis-understood me here. When I say the air below the line
is pressing upward, I am not referring to the air pressing upward on
the bottom of the wing. I am referring to the air _inside_ the wing
pressing upward on the underside of the top surface of the wing. The
air above the wing top surface has lower than normal pressure. The
air inside the wing has normal pressure. So it presses upward on the
top surface of the wing. This is lift generated by the top surface of
the wing.

Air _inside_ the wing. Hmm...please don't take this the wrong way, I
can assure I don't mean it as an insult, but what do you do for a
living and what is your technical bacground (math, physics, etc.) if
you don't mind my asking?

If air inside the wing pushes upward on the underside of the top of
the wing, it also pushes downward on the overside of the bottom of the
wing, thus nullifying any effect of the air inside the wing.


Wow, you're like, the next einstien, dude.

Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote in
:

writes:

Nope. The lift/drag vectors are different as the AOA
changes.
Powered aircraft are gliders when the engines are off.

WEll, your engine has been off for some time and you're not a glider.


Bertie

Well......I guess ole' Mx could perform an experiment that proves his
point here.
If what he says has merit (God help us :-) that big ole 747 up there
with all 4 shut down should actually be able to CLIMB in those l'll ole'
thermals right over there now shouldn't it
:-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote in
:

writes:

Nope. The lift/drag vectors are different as the AOA
changes.
Powered aircraft are gliders when the engines are off.

WEll, your engine has been off for some time and you're not a glider.


Bertie

Well......I guess ole' Mx could perform an experiment that proves his
point here.
If what he says has merit (God help us :-) that big ole 747 up there
with all 4 shut down should actually be able to CLIMB in those l'll ole'
thermals right over there now shouldn't it


God I hope he starts on gliders.

I got as thousand nopes in my pocket waiting.

Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote in
:

writes:

Nope. The lift/drag vectors are different as the AOA
changes.
Powered aircraft are gliders when the engines are off.
WEll, your engine has been off for some time and you're not a glider.


Bertie
Well......I guess ole' Mx could perform an experiment that proves his
point here.
If what he says has merit (God help us :-) that big ole 747 up there
with all 4 shut down should actually be able to CLIMB in those l'll ole'
thermals right over there now shouldn't it


God I hope he starts on gliders.

I got as thousand nopes in my pocket waiting.

Bertie

Some of the stuff he posts would simply be hilarious were it not for
those taking him on in vain attempts to straighten him out. The threads
involving all these elaborate counter explanations to the drivel he
posts just amaze me.
You're right; "nope" is absolutely the way to go with him and those like
him.
I've been watching some of these folks who are right on in the physics
department taking on this hot rabbit character on the lift issue.
Why the living hell anyone in their right mind would take the time to
deal with this from a serious standpoint is beyond my level of
comprehension. I've never seen so much utter bull**** in my life on a
serious flying forum.
The complete information about lift including all the corrections for
the misuse of Bernoulli in some of the texts are so readily available a
5 year old child could both find and understand them. Yet it goes
on....and on......and on!
Anyway, it's entertaining if nothing else!
Yup.........definitely....."Nope" is the way to go.
:-))

--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote in
:

writes:

Nope. The lift/drag vectors are different as the AOA
changes.
Powered aircraft are gliders when the engines are off.
WEll, your engine has been off for some time and you're not a
glider.


Bertie
Well......I guess ole' Mx could perform an experiment that proves
his point here.
If what he says has merit (God help us :-) that big ole 747 up there
with all 4 shut down should actually be able to CLIMB in those l'll
ole' thermals right over there now shouldn't it


God I hope he starts on gliders.

I got as thousand nopes in my pocket waiting.

Bertie

Some of the stuff he posts would simply be hilarious were it not for
those taking him on in vain attempts to straighten him out. The
threads involving all these elaborate counter explanations to the
drivel he posts just amaze me.
You're right; "nope" is absolutely the way to go with him and those
like him.
I've been watching some of these folks who are right on in the physics
department taking on this hot rabbit character on the lift issue.
Why the living hell anyone in their right mind would take the time
to
deal with this from a serious standpoint is beyond my level of
comprehension. I've never seen so much utter bull**** in my life on a
serious flying forum.
The complete information about lift including all the corrections for
the misuse of Bernoulli in some of the texts are so readily available
a 5 year old child could both find and understand them. Yet it goes
on....and on......and on!
Anyway, it's entertaining if nothing else!
Yup.........definitely....."Nope" is the way to go.
:-))

Zactly Why waste your breath telling them?

OTOH if he wants to pay me for my time...


Bertie