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#121
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Cirrus Owner Tell His Story
On 2008-04-03, Ron Wanttaja wrote:
3. EAA and AOPA's messages are a reaction is due to their *member's* concerns, not an indicator as to how serious the threat to Sun-N-Fun really was. If the subject is at least *possible*, they're going to respond to it if enough of their members ask. And as AvWeb has pointed out, Florida is not the first state to institute this sort of policy. Indeed. OTOH, both organizations are going to try to debunk it before publishing. They didn't, or else they'd have said so. Jim Campbell has been printing or posting an annual anti-SnF rant every March for over ten years now, and having just lost his second lawsuit against them probably hasn't improved his attitude. He also just got nailed by the Florida tax folks for a tax lien dating back to the US Aviator days. I suspect the opportunity to slam both SnF and the Florida tax folks was heaven-sent. Undoubtedly. That doesn't make it automatically wrong, as several folks here suggest. -- Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!) AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June) |
#122
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Cirrus Owner Tell His Story
In article , Jay Maynard says...
Jim Campbell has been printing or posting an annual anti-SnF rant every March for over ten years now, and having just lost his second lawsuit against them probably hasn't improved his attitude. He also just got nailed by the Florida tax folks for a tax lien dating back to the US Aviator days. I suspect the opportunity to slam both SnF and the Florida tax folks was heaven-sent. Undoubtedly. That doesn't make it automatically wrong, as several folks here suggest. Nobody is saying he's automatically wrong what we're saying is that many times what zoom says is suspect as to details ,motive and spin. He will never hesitate to use the power of the press to promote his agenda. There is a kernel of truth in this story which could have stood on it's own as it did months ago. Now as he usually does he prints the story with enough facts to seem truthful,adds spin to obfuscate the facts ,confuse the details and then promote his anti Sun n Fun agenda. So far I've seen "one" case detailing a problem ,hardly an epidemic, some confusion from a couple of alphabet orgs, a clarification from the President of Sun n Fun who has more at stake then any of the aforementioned orgs ,stating the SnF will not be targeted by the tax guys. When it comes to credibility zoom is as truthful as a politician. I'm going to be there with a booth and I bet no one will be cited for taxes ..Wanna bet? :-) Chuck S |
#123
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Cirrus Owner Tell His Story
On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 22:03:17 -0700, Ron Wanttaja
wrote: On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 21:53:29 GMT, Jay Maynard wrote: On 2008-04-02, Morgans wrote: "Jay Maynard" wrote There's gotta be fire under the smoke; EAA wouldn't be publishing this one right before Sun n Fun if there weren't some basis for it. Did you not see what the Florida guberment put out, in response to AOPA's inquiry? They WILL NOT have a presence at Sun and Fun. None. Zip. Nada. No trying to catch anyone with an untaxed plane. No Ramp Checks. So they claim, at least. I'm not sure I trust them. Would you trust the IRS if they made a similar statement? EAA has all the reason in the world not to publicize things that would hurt Sun n Fun, yet they publicized this one. I've been generally staying out of this one, but I've got a few comments here. 1. Yes, if a government agency (even the IRS) put out a press release saying "We won't do 'X' next month," (where 'X' is a very specific action), I believe they won't. The mainstream media gets REAL excited when they catch government reps in a bald-faced lie, and doing so is considered a CLM among government press agents. Dodge, equivocate, yes, but saying "We won't do 'X' next month" is pretty definitive. 2. I further believe the Florida tax folks in this case, as tourism is a major Florida industry. I don't think the state and local governments would stand for it if the tax department decided to disrupt a major event that brings hundreds of thousands of well-heeled individuals to the state every year. 3. EAA and AOPA's messages are a reaction is due to their *member's* concerns, not an indicator as to how serious the threat to Sun-N-Fun really was. If the subject is at least *possible*, they're going to respond to it if enough of their members ask. And as AvWeb has pointed out, Florida is not the first state to institute this sort of policy. Jim Campbell has been printing or posting an annual anti-SnF rant every March for over ten years now, and having just lost his second lawsuit against them probably hasn't improved his attitude. He also just got nailed by the Florida tax folks for a tax lien dating back to the US Aviator days. I suspect the opportunity to slam both SnF and the Florida tax folks was heaven-sent. Ron Wanttaja Anything comong from the mouth or pen or keyboard of Jim Campbell is automatically suspect, by definition. If it has ANYTHING, REMOTELY to do with Sun'n Fun, it is no longer suspect, but absolutely, without a doubt, to be discounted as the ravings of an angry psycopathic sociopath. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
#124
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Cirrus Owner Tell His Story
On 2008-04-03, clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada wrote:
Anything comong from the mouth or pen or keyboard of Jim Campbell is automatically suspect, by definition. If it has ANYTHING, REMOTELY to do with Sun'n Fun, it is no longer suspect, but absolutely, without a doubt, to be discounted as the ravings of an angry psycopathic sociopath. This is precisely what I've been arguing against. If Zoom said the sky was blue, would you say it was green? If it was just Zoom, I'd be highly skeptical. It's not just Zoom. -- Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!) AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June) |
#125
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Cirrus Owner Tell His Story
On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 18:12:15 GMT, Jay Maynard
wrote: On 2008-04-03, clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada wrote: Anything comong from the mouth or pen or keyboard of Jim Campbell is automatically suspect, by definition. If it has ANYTHING, REMOTELY to do with Sun'n Fun, it is no longer suspect, but absolutely, without a doubt, to be discounted as the ravings of an angry psycopathic sociopath. This is precisely what I've been arguing against. If Zoom said the sky was blue, would you say it was green? If it was just Zoom, I'd be highly skeptical. It's not just Zoom. Not JUST zoom, but there are some out there who think Zoom is da bomb, and will repeat, support whatever he says. Get the facts (you won't get them from Zoom) then assess what the danger is. Florida can not tax a plane or any other item NOT owned or controlled by "Floridians" - they define who a "Floridian" is. If you have no business presence in Florida, own no property there, and do not have a "permanent" address there, it is pretty unlikely they would have a leg to stand on taxing your proiperty. If you are, by their definition a "floridian" and their law says a tax must be paid on an item brought into the state, you PAY THE TAX. If you try to get away without paying and get caught, you pay the TAX plus a PENALTY. No different in that situation than in any other state, province, or country. Florida may have, or may not have, more taxes than other jurisdictions. However, if they say, as they have, that they will have NO enforcement presence at Sun 'n Fun, you can bank on it. After publicly stating they will not, they have NO CHANCE of winning in court if they try to enforce a tax at that venue. ANd the court of Public Opinion would crucify them. In the current financial environment they need all the Positive Press they can get, and all the tourist dollars. It would be nothing short of suicide economically to do anything stupid. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
#126
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Cirrus Owner Tell His Story
On 2008-04-03, clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada wrote:
Not JUST zoom, but there are some out there who think Zoom is da bomb, and will repeat, support whatever he says. I'm not one of them, and anyone who thinks I am is just plain wrong. Get the facts (you won't get them from Zoom) then assess what the danger is. I'm watching AOPA and EAA. I think they're trustworthy. I haven't even read Zoom's version of the story. Florida can not tax a plane or any other item NOT owned or controlled by "Floridians" - they define who a "Floridian" is. If you have no business presence in Florida, own no property there, and do not have a "permanent" address there, it is pretty unlikely they would have a leg to stand on taxing your proiperty. However, they appear to have done it anyway, based on the stories that have been posted here. However, if they say, as they have, that they will have NO enforcement presence at Sun 'n Fun, you can bank on it. Nobody can bank on anything a government says when it says that it will pass on collecting tax revenue. After publicly stating they will not, they have NO CHANCE of winning in court if they try to enforce a tax at that venue. ANd the court of Public Opinion would crucify them. In the current financial environment they need all the Positive Press they can get, and all the tourist dollars. It would be nothing short of suicide economically to do anything stupid. You're assuming that governments act sensibly. Too often, they don't. -- Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net http://www.hercules-390.org (Yes, that's me!) Buy Hercules stuff at http://www.cafepress.com/hercules-390 |
#127
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Cirrus Owner Tell His Story
On 2008-04-03, ChuckSlusarczyk wrote:
Nobody is saying he's automatically wrong what we're saying is that many times what zoom says is suspect as to details ,motive and spin. He will never hesitate to use the power of the press to promote his agenda. There is a kernel of truth in this story which could have stood on it's own as it did months ago. None of this matters in the slightest. It's not Zoom's story any more, if indeed it ever was. Now as he usually does he prints the story with enough facts to seem truthful,adds spin to obfuscate the facts ,confuse the details and then promote his anti Sun n Fun agenda. I don't care. I'm not getting my information from Zoom, and all of this anti-Zoom argumentation has exactly zero to do with the story. So far I've seen "one" case detailing a problem ,hardly an epidemic, some confusion from a couple of alphabet orgs, a clarification from the President of Sun n Fun who has more at stake then any of the aforementioned orgs ,stating the SnF will not be targeted by the tax guys. When it comes to credibility zoom is as truthful as a politician. Yet you seem to believe the Florida tax people, even though they're as bad as politicians. I'm going to be there with a booth and I bet no one will be cited for .taxes Wanna bet? :-) I'd love to be there and see for myself, but I'm going to be working, darn it. In any event, I'm not the one running the risk. If you think the risk is acceptable, then go, have fun, and make money, with my blessings (not like you need them, but still...). My roommate's dad is going to SnF. I may well go there myself next year, with airplane. (By then, I'll have paid Minnesota's use tax, which is higher than what Florida charges, so I'll be immune even if this does prove to be real.) I understand it's a great time. I hope Florida does come to its senses and casts into law and regulation that they will only attempt to collect tax from Florida residents. Until that time, considering the risk that they will try to collect tax from nonresidents with shiny new airplanes is merely prudent. -- Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net http://www.hercules-390.org (Yes, that's me!) Buy Hercules stuff at http://www.cafepress.com/hercules-390 |
#128
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Cirrus Owner Tell His Story
Jay Maynard wrote: On 2008-04-03, clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada wrote: Anything comong from the mouth or pen or keyboard of Jim Campbell is automatically suspect, by definition. If it has ANYTHING, REMOTELY to do with Sun'n Fun, it is no longer suspect, but absolutely, without a doubt, to be discounted as the ravings of an angry psycopathic sociopath. This is precisely what I've been arguing against. If Zoom said the sky was blue, would you say it was green? NO but I would damn sure verify that it was blue and never ever accept his word for it. The difference is that if YOU told me it was blue...I would probably accept your word for it until you were proven wrong. Even if proven wrong, I would probably accept your statements in the future unless you were proven to be lying repeatedly and for your own purposes. In other words, I accept honest mistakes but not intentional fabrications. Once I lose trust in your statements, your credibility is gone and everything you say in the future is suspect and not to be accepted. That is what has happened with many people here, we have experienced the lies and fabrications of the past from Campbell and now all credibility is lost. No credible publication should be accepted when used as a personal vehicle for attacking ones perceived enemy's in print for public use without providing the victims a venue for debate or to counter the story. Campbell has used his printed magazine and now his web based publication for just that purpose for a long time. When people started using the usenet to counter some of his lies, he tried to silence them with lawsuits and threats of lawsuits. So if people here don't seem to accept anything he prints, it is not without justification. If it was just Zoom, I'd be highly skeptical. It's not just Zoom. -- Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!) AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June) |
#129
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Cirrus Owner Tell His Story
On 2008-04-03, BobR wrote:
No credible publication should be accepted when used as a personal vehicle for attacking ones perceived enemy's in print for public use without providing the victims a venue for debate or to counter the story. Campbell has used his printed magazine and now his web based publication for just that purpose for a long time. When people started using the usenet to counter some of his lies, he tried to silence them with lawsuits and threats of lawsuits. So if people here don't seem to accept anything he prints, it is not without justification. All of this would be relevant if it was just Zoom. It's not just Zoom. -- Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!) AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June) |
#130
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Cirrus Owner Tell His Story
Jay Maynard wrote:
On 2008-04-03, BobR wrote: No credible publication should be accepted when used as a personal vehicle for attacking ones perceived enemy's in print for public use without providing the victims a venue for debate or to counter the story. Campbell has used his printed magazine and now his web based publication for just that purpose for a long time. When people started using the usenet to counter some of his lies, he tried to silence them with lawsuits and threats of lawsuits. So if people here don't seem to accept anything he prints, it is not without justification. All of this would be relevant if it was just Zoom. It's not just Zoom. Here's how this all played out. 1. Fl DOF writes a poorly worded website designed to read by FLORIDA aircraft brokers and dealers. 2. Zoom publishes his story that the sky is falling. 3. Lots of people read that the sky is falling. 4. A subset of the people mentioned in 3 are AOPA and EAA members so they call/e-mail AOPA and EAA to see if the sky is falling. 5. The EAA and AOPA look outside and see that the sky is not falling but need conformation from the FL DOF to prove the sky is not falling. 6. The FL DOF being the same bunch of idiots that produced the poorly worded website to begin with are, as mentioned above idiots, and won't come out and say that they have no power to tax someone that has no connection with Florida other than flying an airplane there because it is the FL DOF job to drag in as much money as they possible can and they might some day figure out how to do just that. But they so have the gust to at least say they aren't going to be camped out at SNF. Now let's look at the chain and see what could have been removed and there be no problem. #1 No, sure they could have written the page better but it is correct if read by the people it is aimed at. #3. No, that's what the Internet is for. #4 & #5 No, that's what the EAA & AOPA is for. #6 No, They are state employees. That leaves #2. |
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