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#11
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GPS-NAV security sealing
Hi,
Yes, it is possible to change the backup battery without breaking the seal. Just keep the unit powered with 12V power while replacing the backup battery. The customer that started this thread had the backup battery get too low and die before it was replaced. The unit then had a security failure and needs re-sealing. Paul Remde "Fred Blair" wrote in message ... Can't you change the internal battery before it gets real low without breaking the seal? wrote in message ... On Aug 25, 10:54 pm, Sam Discusflyer wrote: Is there a way to input a security code in a Cambridge GPS_NAV and seal it without spending hundreds of dollars? Inquiring minds want to know. Steve Michalik Exact cost for 1 day turnaround by Gary at NK the week before last was $130 including memory battery , calibration chart,and next day return delivery. My experience is that this is excellent service for a very fair price. Certainly not the "hundreds of dollars" you seem to anticipate. UH |
#12
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GPS-NAV security sealing
"Paul Remde" wrote in message news:vh3tk.315622$yE1.151194@attbi_s21... Hi, Yes, it is possible to change the backup battery without breaking the seal. Just keep the unit powered with 12V power while replacing the backup battery. The customer that started this thread had the backup battery get too low and die before it was replaced. The unit then had a security failure and needs re-sealing. Paul Remde "Fred Blair" wrote in message ... Can't you change the internal battery before it gets real low without breaking the seal? wrote in message ... On Aug 25, 10:54 pm, Sam Discusflyer wrote: Is there a way to input a security code in a Cambridge GPS_NAV and seal it without spending hundreds of dollars? Inquiring minds want to know. Steve Michalik Exact cost for 1 day turnaround by Gary at NK the week before last was $130 including memory battery , calibration chart,and next day return delivery. My experience is that this is excellent service for a very fair price. Certainly not the "hundreds of dollars" you seem to anticipate. UH The old Cambridge DOS program for the PC reads the voltage of the backup battery. The Cambridge Nav head also shows the backup voltage upon power-up. It pay to obsesrve this from time to time. Hartley Falbaum USA |
#13
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GPS-NAV security sealing
Yes these are all good answers. And yes I let the battery get low. And you
change the lithium battery while it's hooked up to external supply. But no I don't use the GPS_NAV display so the voltage doesn't show all the time. And it will be less cost if I ship through the post office. And no offense to the vendors. In this age of computers and rising fuel costs and shipping costs plus insurance, isn't it possible to make better use of technology and provide for security sealing by computer communication? We transfer money electronically don't we? A lot of people have done electronic payments right? You can give control of your PC to someone over the internet and they can run a software program on their computer to load a device hooked up to your computer. And so me average joe doesn't have the key program to cheat (like I really want to anyway). I know this communication is possible because I've done it. So why is it not possible to hook up the GPS unit to the PC connected to the internet, connect with the key master and load the serial #? You can still pay the $20 or $40 dollar cost to the proprieter with paypal or visa and both parties are happy. I guess I still have to support Brown Company anyway. Thanks for the discussion. Steve Michalik At 03:24 27 August 2008, HL Falbaum wrote: "Paul Remde" wrote in message news:vh3tk.315622$yE1.151194@attbi_s21... Hi, Yes, it is possible to change the backup battery without breaking the seal. Just keep the unit powered with 12V power while replacing the backup battery. The customer that started this thread had the backup battery get too low and die before it was replaced. The unit then had a security failure and needs re-sealing. Paul Remde "Fred Blair" wrote in message ... Can't you change the internal battery before it gets real low without breaking the seal? wrote in message ... On Aug 25, 10:54 pm, Sam Discusflyer wrote: Is there a way to input a security code in a Cambridge GPS_NAV and seal it without spending hundreds of dollars? Inquiring minds want to know. Steve Michalik Exact cost for 1 day turnaround by Gary at NK the week before last was $130 including memory battery , calibration chart,and next day return delivery. My experience is that this is excellent service for a very fair price. Certainly not the "hundreds of dollars" you seem to anticipate. UH The old Cambridge DOS program for the PC reads the voltage of the backup battery. The Cambridge Nav head also shows the backup voltage upon power-up. It pay to obsesrve this from time to time. Hartley Falbaum USA |
#14
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GPS-NAV security sealing
Sam Discusflyer wrote:
So why is it not possible to hook up the GPS unit to the PC connected to the internet, connect with the key master and load the serial #? Open up case, insert $2 microcontroller between GPS receiver and flight recorder logic board, close case, call up manufacturer say "hey my flight recorder unsealed itself", reload key, go set some world records. The manufacturer or designated agent is supposed to inspect the interior of the unit for tampering before resealing. Otherwise, there's not much point to sealing it in the first place... Marc |
#15
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GPS-NAV security sealing
A few comments on this thread;
- A reseal is not a recalibration. A recalibration might include a reseal. - The $140 (in my case) for NK is to do a complete recalibration (required by FAI/SSA every 2 years). What does a recalibration do? As far as I know it doesn't change anything in the recorder. It only reviews how the pressure altimeter (versus GPS altimeter) relates to reality. The recalibration process is to put the recorder into a barometric (hyperbaric) chamber, then change the pressure in the chamber to preset altitudes, get the recorder's altitude reading and finally produce a report of any altitude offsets. NK also changes the battery on GPS-NAVs (which means that they unseal and reseal the unit?). Is there anything else that is done during a recalibration? If so it does seem kind of pricey. But then I don't know how much a barometric chamber costs these days. - Craggy Aero's cost of $40 (plus s/h) is for a reseal only. Why do recorders get unsealed? Physical tampering/opening or mechanical failure are my only thoughts. Are there other possibilities? - Resealing via the Internet? I'm up for that. But what seems easy to implement probably isn't in a secure fashion (PC Anywhere nonwithstanding). In reality there just isn't enough need for reseals to pay for the development necessary to make this happen...with every manufacturer...and get FAI approval to do so. - About why we need all this damned security anyway (from the Newbie). No doubt there have been cases of tampering with the evidence, human nature being what it is. I can also imagine that during the migration from mechanical recorders to electronic recorders, there was a fear that electronics were more suseptible to tampering. Mechanical recorders seem more secure because you can SEE what they are doing. It's called resistance to change which is rather rampant in the aviation field. Thus they chose to set the security bar high. How high? You can't open the device without tripping the unsealed flag. I guess I don't call that too invasive. - How can Craggy (and others) do a reseal or recalibration but not us regular Joes? Craggy has been blessed by the manufacturer similar to being an authorized service center. He also has the proper equipment. I believe for a reseal, he also has to call the manufacturer to get a code. Could he get in cahoots with someone to fake a world record? It would take some pretty good technical skill to tamper with things, but if you could, consider the fame and fortune!! Yeah. Right. - I may be a heretic to say so but is a recalibration really necessary? Hmmmm. I don't see an OLC rule requiring it. Do they ask for calibration documentation at regional, national or world competitions? For badges you are requested to send in a copy of the recalibration report (less than 2 years old as of the date of the flight). However, you can wait up to 1 month AFTER your epic flight to get the recalibration done. Strange but true. My calibration is due next Feb. However, I am unlikely to need it any time soon unless I get a lucky break and make a gold leg. I will probably wait until after my next epic badge flight. I am less clear about the rules surrounding records. - Is a reseal really necessary? I would have to say yes. A broken security seal marks the IGC file as forever bad. No amount of resealing or recalibration will fix that. This means that you epic flight is toast and only good for vicarious reliving of your past glories in SeeYou. My $0.02. - John DeRosa |
#16
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GPS-NAV security sealing
On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 01:21:12 -0700, ContestID67 wrote:
Minor clarification: For badges you are requested to send in a copy of the recalibration report (less than 2 years old as of the date of the flight). However, you can wait up to 1 month AFTER your epic flight to get the recalibration done. A calibration certificate within -2yrs to + 1 month is only needed for a height claim, not for distance or duration. In these cases the logger altitude doesn't need to be accurate because all it has to do is to show that you didn't land and take a relight or trailer the glider during the task. That applies here in the UK and, AFAIK, worldwide unless you have local rules I don't know about. Strange but true. My calibration is due next Feb. I don't think that's so strange. The logger isn't likely to drift much during that month. -- martin@ | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org | |
#17
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GPS-NAV security sealing
On Aug 26, 9:09*pm, Sam Discusflyer wrote:
Yes these are all good answers. And yes I let the battery get low. And you change the lithium battery while it's hooked up to external supply. But no I don't use the GPS_NAV display so the voltage doesn't show all the time. And it will be less cost if I ship through the post office. And no offense to the vendors. In this age of computers and rising fuel costs and shipping costs plus insurance, isn't it possible to make better use of technology and provide for security sealing by computer communication? *We transfer money electronically don't we? A lot of people have done electronic payments right? *You can give control of your PC to someone over the internet and they can run a software program on their computer to load a device hooked up to your computer. And so me average joe doesn't have the key program to cheat (like I really want to anyway). I know this communication is possible because I've done it. * So why is it not possible to hook up the GPS unit to the PC connected to the internet, connect with the key master and load the serial #? * You can still pay the $20 or $40 dollar cost to the proprieter with paypal or visa and both parties are happy. I guess I still have to support Brown Company anyway. Thanks for the discussion. Steve Michalik At 03:24 27 August 2008, HL Falbaum wrote: "Paul Remde" *wrote in message news:vh3tk.315622$yE1.151194@attbi_s21... Hi, Yes, it is possible to change the backup battery without breaking the seal. Just keep the unit powered with 12V power while replacing the backup battery. The customer that started this thread had the backup battery get too low and die before it was replaced. *The unit then had a security failure and needs re-sealing. Paul Remde "Fred Blair" *wrote in message ... Can't you change the internal battery before it gets real low without breaking the seal? *wrote in message ... On Aug 25, 10:54 pm, Sam Discusflyer wrote: Is there a way to input a security code in a Cambridge GPS_NAV and seal it without spending hundreds of dollars? Inquiring minds want to know. Steve Michalik Exact cost for 1 day turnaround by Gary at NK the week before last was $130 including memory battery , calibration chart,and next day return delivery. My experience is that this is excellent service for a very fair price. Certainly not the "hundreds of dollars" you seem to anticipate. UH The old Cambridge DOS program for the PC * reads the voltage of the backup battery. The Cambridge Nav head also shows the backup voltage upon power-up. It pay to obsesrve this from time to time. Hartley Falbaum USA- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Sam, I provide calibration for $60 + $40 to reset seal = $100 + shipping. My Standard turn is 1 day. If I receive today I will ship back tomorrow. I find that many customers appreciate this service as they can save $ on shipping by using US Priotiy Mail or FEDEX Saver. I would replace the battery every year. They are inexpensive. Powering the recorder while replacing the battery does not break the electronic security seal. Take the top cover GPS Antenna off while the recorder is powered and replace the battery. Use a CR2330 battery, this is 5mm thicker than the recommended battery BR or CR 2325, and insures good contact. http://www.craggyaero.com/calibration.htm Thanks Richard www.craggyaero.com |
#18
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GPS-NAV security sealing
Hi Steve,
I understand your point and I agree with it. I do web conferencing all the time and connect to the customer's computer so I can see that they are doing and walk them through procedures. With their permission I can even control their PC. That method could probably be used to re-seal your GPS-NAV. I would be in control from my office and I would enter the re-seal codes told to me over the phone by NK. Give me a call if you want to give it a try. Since I'm in full control and you can't duplicate what I'm doing, I don't see any reason why there would be any security concerns. Paul Remde "Sam Discusflyer" wrote in message ... Yes these are all good answers. And yes I let the battery get low. And you change the lithium battery while it's hooked up to external supply. But no I don't use the GPS_NAV display so the voltage doesn't show all the time. And it will be less cost if I ship through the post office. And no offense to the vendors. In this age of computers and rising fuel costs and shipping costs plus insurance, isn't it possible to make better use of technology and provide for security sealing by computer communication? We transfer money electronically don't we? A lot of people have done electronic payments right? You can give control of your PC to someone over the internet and they can run a software program on their computer to load a device hooked up to your computer. And so me average joe doesn't have the key program to cheat (like I really want to anyway). I know this communication is possible because I've done it. So why is it not possible to hook up the GPS unit to the PC connected to the internet, connect with the key master and load the serial #? You can still pay the $20 or $40 dollar cost to the proprieter with paypal or visa and both parties are happy. I guess I still have to support Brown Company anyway. Thanks for the discussion. Steve Michalik At 03:24 27 August 2008, HL Falbaum wrote: "Paul Remde" wrote in message news:vh3tk.315622$yE1.151194@attbi_s21... Hi, Yes, it is possible to change the backup battery without breaking the seal. Just keep the unit powered with 12V power while replacing the backup battery. The customer that started this thread had the backup battery get too low and die before it was replaced. The unit then had a security failure and needs re-sealing. Paul Remde "Fred Blair" wrote in message ... Can't you change the internal battery before it gets real low without breaking the seal? wrote in message ... On Aug 25, 10:54 pm, Sam Discusflyer wrote: Is there a way to input a security code in a Cambridge GPS_NAV and seal it without spending hundreds of dollars? Inquiring minds want to know. Steve Michalik Exact cost for 1 day turnaround by Gary at NK the week before last was $130 including memory battery , calibration chart,and next day return delivery. My experience is that this is excellent service for a very fair price. Certainly not the "hundreds of dollars" you seem to anticipate. UH The old Cambridge DOS program for the PC reads the voltage of the backup battery. The Cambridge Nav head also shows the backup voltage upon power-up. It pay to obsesrve this from time to time. Hartley Falbaum USA |
#19
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GPS-NAV security sealing
Hi Marc,
Good point. I really would need to have the unit in hand. Paul Remde "Marc Ramsey" wrote in message ... Sam Discusflyer wrote: So why is it not possible to hook up the GPS unit to the PC connected to the internet, connect with the key master and load the serial #? Open up case, insert $2 microcontroller between GPS receiver and flight recorder logic board, close case, call up manufacturer say "hey my flight recorder unsealed itself", reload key, go set some world records. The manufacturer or designated agent is supposed to inspect the interior of the unit for tampering before resealing. Otherwise, there's not much point to sealing it in the first place... Marc |
#20
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GPS-NAV security sealing
Hi Steve,
Never mind. I guess it makes sense for me (or NK) to have the unit in hand to make sure it hasn't been tampered with. That is the reason for the existing process. Paul Remde "Paul Remde" wrote in message news:7Edtk.261163$TT4.65181@attbi_s22... Hi Steve, I understand your point and I agree with it. I do web conferencing all the time and connect to the customer's computer so I can see that they are doing and walk them through procedures. With their permission I can even control their PC. That method could probably be used to re-seal your GPS-NAV. I would be in control from my office and I would enter the re-seal codes told to me over the phone by NK. Give me a call if you want to give it a try. Since I'm in full control and you can't duplicate what I'm doing, I don't see any reason why there would be any security concerns. Paul Remde "Sam Discusflyer" wrote in message ... Yes these are all good answers. And yes I let the battery get low. And you change the lithium battery while it's hooked up to external supply. But no I don't use the GPS_NAV display so the voltage doesn't show all the time. And it will be less cost if I ship through the post office. And no offense to the vendors. In this age of computers and rising fuel costs and shipping costs plus insurance, isn't it possible to make better use of technology and provide for security sealing by computer communication? We transfer money electronically don't we? A lot of people have done electronic payments right? You can give control of your PC to someone over the internet and they can run a software program on their computer to load a device hooked up to your computer. And so me average joe doesn't have the key program to cheat (like I really want to anyway). I know this communication is possible because I've done it. So why is it not possible to hook up the GPS unit to the PC connected to the internet, connect with the key master and load the serial #? You can still pay the $20 or $40 dollar cost to the proprieter with paypal or visa and both parties are happy. I guess I still have to support Brown Company anyway. Thanks for the discussion. Steve Michalik At 03:24 27 August 2008, HL Falbaum wrote: "Paul Remde" wrote in message news:vh3tk.315622$yE1.151194@attbi_s21... Hi, Yes, it is possible to change the backup battery without breaking the seal. Just keep the unit powered with 12V power while replacing the backup battery. The customer that started this thread had the backup battery get too low and die before it was replaced. The unit then had a security failure and needs re-sealing. Paul Remde "Fred Blair" wrote in message ... Can't you change the internal battery before it gets real low without breaking the seal? wrote in message ... On Aug 25, 10:54 pm, Sam Discusflyer wrote: Is there a way to input a security code in a Cambridge GPS_NAV and seal it without spending hundreds of dollars? Inquiring minds want to know. Steve Michalik Exact cost for 1 day turnaround by Gary at NK the week before last was $130 including memory battery , calibration chart,and next day return delivery. My experience is that this is excellent service for a very fair price. Certainly not the "hundreds of dollars" you seem to anticipate. UH The old Cambridge DOS program for the PC reads the voltage of the backup battery. The Cambridge Nav head also shows the backup voltage upon power-up. It pay to obsesrve this from time to time. Hartley Falbaum USA |
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