AT, TAT, MAT?

All -

Does anyone know of any good books or articles on the nuts-and-
bolts / common-strategies of how to fly the various competition task
types?

I'm still waiting on my copy of Winning II, but Reichmann and
Brigliadori don't really touch on these and the competition rules only
define what the tasks ARE, not how to approach flying them...

I haven't yet been able to find any good reading material (other than
the SRA 2005 Comp Guide) on how to approach the different task types -
anyone have any recommendations?

BTW, I've read some of the different rules documents, and it may be
that I don't fully understand the scoring system... the big question-
marks in my mind relate to speed points vs. distance points, and their
trade-offs. For example: when is it worthwhile to push for extra
distance, even if it might hurt the average speed you have going (so
far) during a task?

Thanks, take care,

--Noel

"noel.wade" wrote in message
...
All -

Does anyone know of any good books or articles on the nuts-and-
bolts / common-strategies of how to fly the various competition task
types?

I'm still waiting on my copy of Winning II, but Reichmann and
Brigliadori don't really touch on these and the competition rules only
define what the tasks ARE, not how to approach flying them...

I haven't yet been able to find any good reading material (other than
the SRA 2005 Comp Guide) on how to approach the different task types -
anyone have any recommendations?

BTW, I've read some of the different rules documents, and it may be
that I don't fully understand the scoring system... the big question-
marks in my mind relate to speed points vs. distance points, and their
trade-offs. For example: when is it worthwhile to push for extra
distance, even if it might hurt the average speed you have going (so
far) during a task?

Thanks, take care,

--Noel


Actually, The Brigliadori's book has a whole section on AAT strategies and
tactics.

Speed always counts for more than distance, but you *must* finish the task.
Distance is a factor if you think you can't finish the task. A special case
is an AAT final glide with excess height--Very fast final from where you
are, or slower final by increasing distance? In either case your speed for
the segment will be faster than your overall average, so the longer segment
will increase your average more. Hurting your average for more distance
won't help.

Cheers and always happy flights.

Hartley Falbaum
USA "KF"

On Oct 9, 11:23*pm, "noel.wade" wrote:
All -

Does anyone know of any good books or articles on the nuts-and-
bolts */ common-strategies of how to fly the various competition task
types?

I'm still waiting on my copy of Winning II, but Reichmann and
Brigliadori don't really touch on these and the competition rules only
define what the tasks ARE, not how to approach flying them...

I haven't yet been able to find any good reading material (other than
the SRA 2005 Comp Guide) on how to approach the different task types -
anyone have any recommendations?

BTW, I've read some of the different rules documents, and it may be
that I don't fully understand the scoring system... the big question-
marks in my mind relate to speed points vs. distance points, and their
trade-offs. *For example: when is it worthwhile to push for extra
distance, even if it might hurt the average speed you have going (so
far) during a task?

Thanks, take care,

--Noel

For first contest, I would recommend keeping it simple and putting
most of your effort into good flying and developing a system that puts
you, your glider and everything you need on the grid at grid time
(checklists). No running around chasing after forgotten cockpit
miscellany. As far as tasks, concentrate on 1) valid starts &
finishes, 2) valid turn points, 3) staying out of airspace, if any, 4)
avoid under time penalties on TAT and MAT. Practice programming tasks
into PDA so you can see the layout of the area tasks (quite helpful).
Be extremely wary about "knicking" turnpoints -- the number of pilots
who have scored a clean miss on a 30 mile diameter turn area might
surprise you! That and good flying will make you competitive at
regional level. Good luck!

-T8

On Oct 9, 11:23*pm, "noel.wade" wrote:
All -

Does anyone know of any good books or articles on the nuts-and-
bolts */ common-strategies of how to fly the various competition task
types?

I'm still waiting on my copy of Winning II, but Reichmann and
Brigliadori don't really touch on these and the competition rules only
define what the tasks ARE, not how to approach flying them...

I haven't yet been able to find any good reading material (other than
the SRA 2005 Comp Guide) on how to approach the different task types -
anyone have any recommendations?

BTW, I've read some of the different rules documents, and it may be
that I don't fully understand the scoring system... the big question-
marks in my mind relate to speed points vs. distance points, and their
trade-offs. *For example: when is it worthwhile to push for extra
distance, even if it might hurt the average speed you have going (so
far) during a task?

Thanks, take care,

--Noel

It is simpler than you make it out to be to timed tasks:
1) Don't leave unused time on the table unless it risks landout or
really slow last leg.
2) Extend the flight beyond min time if your calculations show you
will be increasing speed- example would be diluting the effect of
having gotten stuck earlier in the flight, or wx drastically improves,
or you can end with long period of higher speeed ridge(or wave)
flight.
3) Go back to 1.
Looks like you are being a good student of the sport.
UH

Noel:

You've demonstrated that you like to gather and use good information.
Before you read specific task strategies, make sure you understand the
rules. As mentioned speed always counts a lot more than distance
points, so strive to finish the task first. Distance points are just a
consolation prize.

I suggest you read the regional contest rules carefully (download them
at the SRA web site if you haven't done so already), then give the SRA
contest guide another read.

One thing you'll realize is that a TAT (also called AAT) is just an AT
with bigger turn radii and a minimum task time. Other than that
they're scored the same, and of course TATs give you the opportunity
to route your task to more favorable weather and terrain.

As you start to understand the rules you'll find that task strategies
are a basic application of common sense and the usual x/c strategies
(stay upwind of courseline, watch weather & terrain, delay thermaling
if possible when approaching a turnpoint from downwind, etc).

After the rules and SRA guide, read everything you can find by Moffat
and Cochrane. The Reichmann and Brigliadori books are translated so
don't read as easily.

And never forget there is no substitute for cockpit time. Learning the
art of detecting lift and deciding when or whether to turn was (and
still is) a far more daunting task to me than getting the arms around
rules and strategies!

~ted/2NO

On Oct 9, 11:23*pm, "noel.wade" wrote:
All -

Does anyone know of any good books or articles on the nuts-and-
bolts */ common-strategies of how to fly the various competition task
types?

I'm still waiting on my copy of Winning II, but Reichmann and
Brigliadori don't really touch on these and the competition rules only
define what the tasks ARE, not how to approach flying them...

I haven't yet been able to find any good reading material (other than
the SRA 2005 Comp Guide) on how to approach the different task types -
anyone have any recommendations?

BTW, I've read some of the different rules documents, and it may be
that I don't fully understand the scoring system... the big question-
marks in my mind relate to speed points vs. distance points, and their
trade-offs. *For example: when is it worthwhile to push for extra
distance, even if it might hurt the average speed you have going (so
far) during a task?

Thanks, take care,

--Noel

Hi Noel,

John Cochrane's web pages have a bunch of interesting reading. Some
of it is fairly "deep" (hey, he's an economist for chrissakes - sorry
John), so be prepared to white board and talk to yourself while you
read.

http://faculty.chicagogsb.edu/john.c...rs/#For_glider

For my part, I'd also suggest you keep it simple. Aside from the
obvious stuff like being prepared, knowing the basic rules, etc. I'd
do the following:

- All tasks: Assuming you have the basic flying skills (e.g.
thermalling, cruising, etc.), try to stay with people, preferably a
few people who are a bit better than you. Don't be embarassed about
"leaching" in your first contest. At the same time, don't get in
the way. You'll be amazed at how much you'll learn.

- All tasks: Start early and let the good guys catch up to you.
No, really. Forget about start gate roulette or trying to start at
the "optimal time". If you're near/at the top of the gate and it
looks like the day is more-or-less "cooking", go ahead and start.
Sometimes, a few more folks will start soon after, and you'll have
them to fly with for a while. More often than not, they'll sit in
their cockpits laughing (privately) at your rookie mistake while you
get hung out to dry. Inevitably, the good guys will catch you and
pass you. Maybe you can hang with them for a couple of thermals.

- AAT: In theory, you want to finish the task more or less "on
time"; ie. if it's a three hour task, you want to finish around 3
hours. Good theory. In practice, most newbies have trouble hitting
a precise time because their flying is inconsistent. The penalty for
being under time is way worse than being a bit over. Shoot for 15
minutes over time. You'll be so slow that it won't really matter, and
your goal at this point should be to build up contest time anyway.

- MAT: Similar to AAT in terms of time. Other than that, the one
big one is to always aim for a "target rich environment". If there's
a quadrant that has lots of turnpoint options, go there, other things
being equal (i.e. unless it looks like crap compared to the other
areas). There's nothing worse than banking on one turnpoint that
miles from nowhere, only to find that it's surrounded by the only blue
hole/thunderstorm/over-development in the contest area. To put it
another way, always give yourself some options in case the turnpoint
you thought you were heading for isn't going to work out.

There you have it. Follow the above, and you're guaranteed not to
come in DFL.

P3

On Oct 10, 10:11 am, Papa3 wrote:
On Oct 9, 11:23 pm, "noel.wade" wrote:



All -

Does anyone know of any good books or articles on the nuts-and-
bolts / common-strategies of how to fly the various competition task
types?

I'm still waiting on my copy of Winning II, but Reichmann and
Brigliadori don't really touch on these and the competition rules only
define what the tasks ARE, not how to approach flying them...

I haven't yet been able to find any good reading material (other than
the SRA 2005 Comp Guide) on how to approach the different task types -
anyone have any recommendations?

BTW, I've read some of the different rules documents, and it may be
that I don't fully understand the scoring system... the big question-
marks in my mind relate to speed points vs. distance points, and their
trade-offs. For example: when is it worthwhile to push for extra
distance, even if it might hurt the average speed you have going (so
far) during a task?

Thanks, take care,

--Noel

Hi Noel,

John Cochrane's web pages have a bunch of interesting reading. Some
of it is fairly "deep" (hey, he's an economist for chrissakes - sorry
John), so be prepared to white board and talk to yourself while you
read.

http://faculty.chicagogsb.edu/john.c...rs/#For_glider

For my part, I'd also suggest you keep it simple. Aside from the
obvious stuff like being prepared, knowing the basic rules, etc. I'd
do the following:

- All tasks: Assuming you have the basic flying skills (e.g.
thermalling, cruising, etc.), try to stay with people, preferably a
few people who are a bit better than you. Don't be embarassed about
"leaching" in your first contest. At the same time, don't get in
the way. You'll be amazed at how much you'll learn.

- All tasks: Start early and let the good guys catch up to you.
No, really. Forget about start gate roulette or trying to start at
the "optimal time". If you're near/at the top of the gate and it
looks like the day is more-or-less "cooking", go ahead and start.
Sometimes, a few more folks will start soon after, and you'll have
them to fly with for a while. More often than not, they'll sit in
their cockpits laughing (privately) at your rookie mistake while you
get hung out to dry. Inevitably, the good guys will catch you and
pass you. Maybe you can hang with them for a couple of thermals.

- AAT: In theory, you want to finish the task more or less "on
time"; ie. if it's a three hour task, you want to finish around 3
hours. Good theory. In practice, most newbies have trouble hitting
a precise time because their flying is inconsistent. The penalty for
being under time is way worse than being a bit over. Shoot for 15
minutes over time. You'll be so slow that it won't really matter, and
your goal at this point should be to build up contest time anyway.

- MAT: Similar to AAT in terms of time. Other than that, the one
big one is to always aim for a "target rich environment". If there's
a quadrant that has lots of turnpoint options, go there, other things
being equal (i.e. unless it looks like crap compared to the other
areas). There's nothing worse than banking on one turnpoint that
miles from nowhere, only to find that it's surrounded by the only blue
hole/thunderstorm/over-development in the contest area. To put it
another way, always give yourself some options in case the turnpoint
you thought you were heading for isn't going to work out.

There you have it. Follow the above, and you're guaranteed not to
come in DFL.

P3

I'll add a couple things (with 2 whole contests under my belt!):

1. look at the forecast for the day. Generally the weather report
you get will plot the expected cloudbase through the day. Plan
on flying your task during the best hours of the day. It works
against
you to start in weaker conditions and finish while there's still an
hour
of strong lift available. This factor favors the MAT and TAT format
over
the AT, since with an assigned task you have to worry about how long
the task will take you and then center THAT in the best soaring!

2. Estimate your speed on task once you know how good the day will be.
Based on that you can determine how far you want to go into the
cylinders,
or how many turnpoints to hit on a MAT. E.g., task time is 3 hours,
conditions are good, so you think you will fly 60mph. Nominal task
length is
160 miles, minimum 120, maximum 200. You'd better fly deep into that
first
cylinder or else you're going to be stuck coming in early.

3. Practice makes perfect. During your weekend flying with your
friends
get together early and call a MAT or TAT for the day and see how it
works.
Also, get Condor and use it in the off season. Mostly the online
competitions
call ATs or arcade tasks, but you can program your own tasks and even
host
them so others come to join. Best of all, you can connect your PDA to
Condor and learn how to use it for MAT and TAT tasks.

Most importantly, fly safe and have fun!
-- Matt (sometimes AI)

Here are a few extra hints to make sure that you actually complete the
task:

1) Check your waypoint data, especially if you've entered or updated
any manually. (We once had a competitor enter the wrong coordinates
for a turnpoint and then flew about 90-degrees off course to a landout
in the middle of nowhere)

2) Make sure that you fly the current day's task and not
yesterday's. (I've seen that happen a couple of times).

3) If flying an MAT with poor weather conditions make sure that you
have a choice of turnpoints. (I blew a task last year when I chose
two successive turnpoints with no close alternatives that had
thunderstorms over them when I arrived).

Finishing the task should be your first goal. When you've figured out
how to do that, then you can increase your speed!

Mike

"Mike the Strike" wrote in message
...
Here are a few extra hints to make sure that you actually complete the
task:

1) Check your waypoint data, especially if you've entered or updated
any manually. (We once had a competitor enter the wrong coordinates
for a turnpoint and then flew about 90-degrees off course to a landout
in the middle of nowhere)

2) Make sure that you fly the current day's task and not
yesterday's. (I've seen that happen a couple of times).

3) If flying an MAT with poor weather conditions make sure that you
have a choice of turnpoints. (I blew a task last year when I chose
two successive turnpoints with no close alternatives that had
thunderstorms over them when I arrived).

Finishing the task should be your first goal. When you've figured out
how to do that, then you can increase your speed!

Mike



All good suggestions.

In addition---Don't cut your final glide close. Practice with the software
till you can trust it. Add an extra 200 ft until you know it is safe. It is
really neat to make it home past the other gliders in the nearby field.


Hartley

Thanks for all the tips and info, folks! Big thanks for the links to
John Cochrane & KS's past articles.

A couple of responses to the concerns and basic "just fly the task"
comments, so you understand where I'm coming from:

1) I'm flying with an S-Nav, a PDA (XCSoar), and an ewMicroRecorder.
I've practiced using all of the above equipment with AT-type tasks,
but I do need to figure out to set up MAT and TAT tasks. :-) I've
definitely spent some time dialing in my polar and final-glide
settings to try to make that part of it accurate, though (and I'm not
there yet).

2) I have been a big proponent of the Condor soaring simulator since I
first started working on transitioning from SEL to Glider. I have a
nice setup and have flown a lot of hours with it over the last 2
years. I think the thermals are slightly too symmetrical (too easy to
perfectly center in many cases) - but otherwise its an EXCELLENT
resource. Didn't think you could do MAT or TAT tasks with it,
though...

3) Practice: My last several flights at EPH this summer I made a
point of researching in the morning (see point #4 below), and picking
a few waypoints. I then flew to (or beyond) these waypoints on my
flights (noting differences in the forecast and the actual
conditions). I've also spent a fair amount of time flying near
Seattle itself, where cloudbases are very low and the lift is
typically only about 2 knots. This week I did a 125km+ XC flight -
which doesn't sound like much until you learn that the cloudbase was
3000' MSL and we were dodging rain-showers the whole time; and half of
the pilots that day landed out! Flying in weak conditions may not
allow for big distances, but the skills you develop in making low-
saves and "tiptoeing around" are invaluable!

4) Weather: For me this is a hugely important skill to learn as a
pilot. I've worked to become the chief forecaster for our local (west-
side) club. I am still working to get better at reading individual
clouds and timing my jumps to them, but I have become very adept at
using soundings (both real and simulated) and other online weather
resources to figure out the forecasted conditions at various points
along my flight-path. I'll admit it: mostly, I'm stubborn and I don't
trust other people's forecasts. I want to read the tea-leaves myself,
and then if I screw up I have no one else to blame. :-P

5) When to turn: This is still a big one for me. I am developing a
good "butt-meter" when it comes to detecting and centering lift when
I'm flying along slowly or already circling. At my typical cruise-
speed of ~80 knots I find it MUCH harder! Either I stop and turn for
a big bump that isn't workable (just a gust or something ragged); or I
blow through the lift by the time I realize its big enough to use, and
I don't think its worthwhile to try to turn back around to find it.
At least I know I'm not the only one who sometimes dolphin-flies and
pulls up in the sink on the far side because of vario lag... *sigh*

For those that have read this far (I'm impressed!) and have flown in
competitions: On a good day (thermal-strength-wise), how big of an
altitude band do you typically use when jumping between individual
clouds? I know about McCready theory and using streets and energy
lines and such; but I am curious about people's experiences and
anecdotal evidence. And yes, I know the exact answer is dependant
upon terrain and conditions - but I'm still interested to know what
your rough estimate is.

Thanks again for some excellent suggestions and information!

Take care,

--Noel