Do you support establishing a US Club Class? Yes answers only!

Hello All:

If you have not figured it out, this is a topic I care passionnately
about...

Could we try and give the members of the US RC that post here/read
opinions here regularly an idea of the possible support for
establishing a stand alone US Club Class Nationals?

I recognize that the devil is alwawsy in the details, but please
answer yes to the following question, maybe a substantial turn-out
might impress upon the RC/USSTC.

While I appreciate the anti-Club Class Camp and their arguments,
supporters need to come up with some sort of data to support the
viability or confirm the impossibility of this Class here in the USA.

So, if you are not a supporter of this concept, or you do not
affirmatively know of a pilot who might be willing to fly such a
class, please do not post to this thread.


Question: Would you, or someone you know, would willingly fly or offer
your Club Class glider to someone who would fly at a stand-alone US
Club Class Nationals?

Thank You,

Tim S. McAllister
EY

2004,2006 US Team - Club Class
2005, 2007 FAI World GP

On Sep 21, 12:13*pm, Tim wrote:
Hello All:

If you have not figured it out, this is a topic I care passionnately
about...

Could we try and give the members of the US RC that post here/read
opinions here regularly an idea of the possible support for
establishing a stand alone US Club Class Nationals?

I recognize that the devil is alwawsy in the details, but please
answer yes to the following question, maybe a substantial turn-out
might impress upon the RC/USSTC.

While I appreciate the anti-Club Class Camp and their arguments,
supporters need to come up with some sort of data to support the
viability or confirm the impossibility of this Class here in the USA.

So, if you are not a supporter of this concept, or you do not
affirmatively know of a pilot who might be willing to fly such a
class, please do not post to this thread.

Question: Would you, or someone you know, would willingly fly or offer
your Club Class glider to someone who would fly at a stand-alone US
Club Class Nationals?

Thank You,

Tim S. McAllister
EY

2004,2006 US Team - Club Class
2005, 2007 FAI World GP

what would be the problem with running Sports Class and Club Class
nationals concurrently, like appears to be done in Australia. One big
happy handicapped contest. So then basically you'll have the same
contest as you do now but Club Class gliders will get scored
separately from the rest so the Club Class winner can go on the US
Team. Then the people on the World Team actually have won a national
contest. Plus, then who cares if only 5 pilots sign up for Club Class
and the other 50 fly for Sports Class. The 5 will run for the world
team and the 50 will fly for bragging rights and a trophy.

I don't know much about the history and current situation of Club
Class but it seems to me if you are going to qualify for the US Club
Class Team you should fly a Club Class glider as defined by the FAI.
Obviously Tim and Sean feel this way too.

On Sep 21, 1:13*pm, Tim wrote:
Hello All:

If you have not figured it out, this is a topic I care passionnately
about...

Could we try and give the members of the US RC that post here/read
opinions here regularly an idea of the possible support for
establishing a stand alone US Club Class Nationals?

I recognize that the devil is alwawsy in the details, but please
answer yes to the following question, maybe a substantial turn-out
might impress upon the RC/USSTC.

While I appreciate the anti-Club Class Camp and their arguments,
supporters need to come up with some sort of data to support the
viability or confirm the impossibility of this Class here in the USA.

So, if you are not a supporter of this concept, or you do not
affirmatively know of a pilot who might be willing to fly such a
class, please do not post to this thread.

Question: Would you, or someone you know, would willingly fly or offer
your Club Class glider to someone who would fly at a stand-alone US
Club Class Nationals?

Thank You,

Tim S. McAllister
EY

2004,2006 US Team - Club Class
2005, 2007 FAI World GP

I'd fly it. Several people in my club would, also, but I'll let
them speak for themselves.

For that matter what's the possibility of doing exactly this at
next years Sports Nationals? Sarah flew in the club class
event at Cordele last year and has expressed an interest
in holding a club class event.

-- Matt

"Tim" wrote in message ...

.... Snip ...


Question: Would you, or someone you know, would willingly fly or offer
your Club Class glider to someone who would fly at a stand-alone US
Club Class Nationals?


Tim,

I have yet to enter a contest. I feel reluctant to drag my HP-14 to a location where I am competing with ASW-29s, etc. However, Club Class completion sound very appealing to me.

Wayne
HP-14 "6F"
http://tinyurl.com/N990-6F

On Sep 21, 12:13*pm, Tim wrote:
Hello All:

If you have not figured it out, this is a topic I care passionnately
about...

Could we try and give the members of the US RC that post here/read
opinions here regularly an idea of the possible support for
establishing a stand alone US Club Class Nationals?

I think you're mixing two issues: 1) having a contest labeled "club
class nationals" that only allows club gliders 2) getting the US team
committee to commit ahead of time to use the results of that contest,
and only that contest, to select world team members.

Issue #1 is pretty easy to solve. I can't speak for the entire RC, but
I would certainly support a request to run a "club class super
regionals" and probably even a "club class nationals." Heck, we allow
a "senior nationals" so why not. As with many big changes, it's worth
doing it by waiver for a few years to gauge success before permanently
changing rules. It would have to be inserted carefully in the contest
season --- the major objection to "club" is leaving the low
performance and older high performance gliders nowhere to fly, so it
should probably be on the other coast from the "sports nationals." But
it seems like a reasonable idea.

So, once again, if you want it, stop complaining and run it! Our major
problem is finding operators and CDs willing to run contests. We'll
look for your bid for next year. You might even be able to get one in
for the 2011 season if you hurry.

As for issue #2, well, try to understand the view of the very
reasonable people on the team committee. When they look at sports
class results under current rules, they see a very weak team; one that
US pilots are not likely in the end to support with our hard-earned
cash. (We've talked here about megabucks -- the real megabucks is what
it costs to go to the worlds, any worlds.) It would be pretty
irresponsible of them to change team selection rules to use results of
a class that has had a grand total of two contests, and has not
responded to the pilot and glider restrictions in sports class.

I know you feel that "build it and they will come," if only there were
a separate scoresheet and no asw27s buzzing around, we'd finally have
50 people at these nationals, not 10-14 that show up (and almost none
two years in a row) despite the 27s not being eligible for team
selection. But you have to understand that they really can't change
rules based on a theory. If you run some "sports class nationals" by
waiver, and lots of people show up, that is most likely to persuade
them.

You may say "people won't show up without team points." But they would
answer "people aren't showing up now, despite team points, so team
points must not be that important to the vast majority of pilots." And
the team rankings back them up, in every class. See here

http://soaringweb.org/US_Team/HomePage.html

It's blatantly obvious that even in 15, 18, standard and PW5 that no
more than 4 or 5 people care enough about team points to bother
showing up to the same contest two years in a row.

Anyway, that's my best guess at how the team committee thinks about
it, and addressing that point of view is the most likely route to
success.

Just to be clear, there is nothing I would like to see more than a
vibrant club class with 60 pilots duking it out every year, then going
on to do well at the worlds. Make it happen. I think the whole RC and
team committee feel that way. There is nobody, absolutely nobody,
"against" club class. There is a worry that going about it wrong could
hurt the very successful sports class, produce a small weak
"specialist" class, and lead to more small contests that are money-
losers for the organizers. Address those worries, and you'll get what
you want.

John Cochrane

What is the Club Class?

How is that different from Sport Class?

If it is a class where you can fly a lower performance glider with a
handicap against others
then I would be interested in flying.

Like Wayne I have not entered a contest yet since it seems futile to
do so with my
Schreder HP-11 against all the modern glass.

I think soaring contests in general would have wider appeal if they
were accessable to
more glider pilots.

Anything that makes that possible would be a good thing in my opinion.

In article
,
Tim wrote:

Hello All:

If you have not figured it out, this is a topic I care passionnately
about...

Could we try and give the members of the US RC that post here/read
opinions here regularly an idea of the possible support for
establishing a stand alone US Club Class Nationals?

I recognize that the devil is alwawsy in the details, but please
answer yes to the following question, maybe a substantial turn-out
might impress upon the RC/USSTC.

While I appreciate the anti-Club Class Camp and their arguments,
supporters need to come up with some sort of data to support the
viability or confirm the impossibility of this Class here in the USA.

So, if you are not a supporter of this concept, or you do not
affirmatively know of a pilot who might be willing to fly such a
class, please do not post to this thread.


Question: Would you, or someone you know, would willingly fly or offer
your Club Class glider to someone who would fly at a stand-alone US
Club Class Nationals?

Thank You,

Tim S. McAllister
EY

2004,2006 US Team - Club Class
2005, 2007 FAI World GP

I am very much in favor of the U.S. club class and have flown both that
Region 5 has hosted.

On Sep 21, 3:24*pm, jb92563 wrote:
What is the Club Class?

How is that different from Sport Class?

If it is a class where you can fly a lower performance glider with a
handicap against others
then I would be interested in flying.

Like Wayne I have not entered a contest yet since it seems futile to
do so with my
Schreder HP-11 against all the modern glass.

I think soaring contests in general would have wider appeal if they
were accessable to
more glider pilots.

Anything that makes that possible would be a good thing in my opinion.

Don't worry about the performance of your glider. The GTA races
(informal and not sanctioned) have the gamut of performance ships. I
just competed in Region V West and we had a Silent competing. The
handicap put him in the top few places every day even though his raw
scores were near the bottom. 13 meters and still competitive. I
would say that your first few contests will be a success if you make
it around the course and don't embarrass yourself on the grid and
landing. That has been my attitude this first year and I have had a
blast at Perry and Chilhowee. Stated simply, don't refrain from
competing because you are afraid you will not win! Enjoy the
performance you already own and learn the ropes of competition - we
need the participation and you will enjoy it.

Lane
XF

In article
,
Tony wrote:



what would be the problem with running Sports Class and Club Class
nationals concurrently, like appears to be done in Australia. One big
happy handicapped contest. So then basically you'll have the same
contest as you do now but Club Class gliders will get scored
separately from the rest so the Club Class winner can go on the US
Team. Then the people on the World Team actually have won a national
contest. Plus, then who cares if only 5 pilots sign up for Club Class
and the other 50 fly for Sports Class. The 5 will run for the world
team and the 50 will fly for bragging rights and a trophy.

I don't know much about the history and current situation of Club
Class but it seems to me if you are going to qualify for the US Club
Class Team you should fly a Club Class glider as defined by the FAI.
Obviously Tim and Sean feel this way too.

Great idea! In fact, it's so good that it was done at Cordele this past
year. Sports and Club had similar tasks (a MAT and an assigned task can
be very similar if the CD is clever). I think everyone was happy with
the arrangement.

On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 12:24:12 -0700, jb92563 wrote:

What is the Club Class?

A handicapped list of gliders. The types included on the list and the
handicaps they use are defined by the FAI. Only gliders on the list are
eligible for the international Club class.

How is that different from Sport Class?

My understanding is that the SSA, like the BGA, has its own handicapping
system which covers just about any glider that can be flown in a regional
or national competition. The BGA's list certainly includes everything
from the Falke and Slingsby T.21 to the ASW22bl and Nimbus 4. Like your
Sports class the range of types is too wide to allow fair and sensible
tasks to be set in weak conditions.

So, an observation from the right side of the pond: I hope it may help
this discussion.

My club runs a Regionals every year that usually attracts 50-60 entries.
All gliders are handicapped using the BGA handicaps. The gliders are
split into two classes on the handicap. Each class is tasked separately,
so the lower performance gliders can be given a shorter task, but both
tasks are launched at almost the same time. The classes alternate
position on the grid each day, typically with a short launching gap
between classes, so they can use separate start times to ease congestion
etc. The workload on the CD and organisation isn't much different from
running a single task for all gliders.

At first glance this split might work quite well for an American combined
Club and Sports class contest with the main difference that Club class
would only include gliders eligible for the FAI Club class.


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gregorie. | Essex, UK
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