noise pollution from private planes

"Bill Daniels" wrote in message
...

"Scott" wrote in message
...
Because he's a troll. Yes, complaining about the airport would be good.
They would just shut down another general aviation airport. Remember,
if the airport goes away, so does another landing spot for gliders. I
fly both powered and gliders. I'll bet the airport was there when
numbnuts bought his house (and he probably doesn't even live near an
airport) and he didn't have brain one to be able to think that maybe
someday, someone would actually fly a powered plane out of that airport.

Scott Littfin


That logic may win a battle but it will eventually lose the war to keep
small airports open. Once Chicago closed Miegs Field and got away with
it,
the precedent is set for other airport closure battles.

The only long term solution is that airplanes have to get much quieter -
fortunately, there are engineering ways to do that. Retrofitting older
aircraft is possible but big gains have to be designed in.

Meanwhile, as our European friends have pointed out, winches rarely annoy
airport neighbors. Modern winches can now provide as much release height
as
99% of air tows.

The reality is that fuel costs will drive us to winches which will have
many
former general aviation airfields to operate from since the Cezzna drivers
won't be able to afford fuel prices.

Bill Daniels

A recent survey apparently indicates the $3/gal is the break point for large
SUV owners.

Adjusted for 1980 dollars, oil would be $90/barrel for gas prices to match
those historic levels.

$5/gal 100LL certainly won't inspire growth in the number of soaring pilots,
but the $25/2000ft tow becomes the $32.50/2000ft tow, not quite a show
stopper in the near term. Still, it makes the $5-$10/winch launch a
potential winner.

Frank Whiteley

UK prices equate to around $9 a gallon for 100 LL,
propotional to population we have a larger soaring
community than the US.

At 16:30 26 March 2005, F.L. Whiteley wrote:

'Bill Daniels' wrote in message
...

'Scott' wrote in message
...
Because he's a troll. Yes, complaining about the
airport would be good.
They would just shut down another general aviation
airport. Remember,
if the airport goes away, so does another landing
spot for gliders. I
fly both powered and gliders. I'll bet the airport
was there when
numbnuts bought his house (and he probably doesn't
even live near an
airport) and he didn't have brain one to be able
to think that maybe
someday, someone would actually fly a powered plane
out of that airport.

Scott Littfin


That logic may win a battle but it will eventually
lose the war to keep
small airports open. Once Chicago closed Miegs Field
and got away with
it,
the precedent is set for other airport closure battles.

The only long term solution is that airplanes have
to get much quieter -
fortunately, there are engineering ways to do that.
Retrofitting older
aircraft is possible but big gains have to be designed
in.

Meanwhile, as our European friends have pointed out,
winches rarely annoy
airport neighbors. Modern winches can now provide
as much release height
as
99% of air tows.

The reality is that fuel costs will drive us to winches
which will have
many
former general aviation airfields to operate from
since the Cezzna drivers
won't be able to afford fuel prices.

Bill Daniels

A recent survey apparently indicates the $3/gal is
the break point for large
SUV owners.

Adjusted for 1980 dollars, oil would be $90/barrel
for gas prices to match
those historic levels.

$5/gal 100LL certainly won't inspire growth in the
number of soaring pilots,
but the $25/2000ft tow becomes the $32.50/2000ft tow,
not quite a show
stopper in the near term. Still, it makes the $5-$10/winch
launch a
potential winner.

Frank Whiteley

Including a very much larger winch launching community also. Cost of
average club membership participation may be less than here all told. My
club dues and launch fees at my last UK clubs were less than here unless I
flew club gliders at the hourly rate. Cost to the private owner were quite
reasonable. Taxes are the difference in fuel cost of course.

However, none of your airtow operations are operating above 5500MSL. AFAIK,
all of our operations are at or above this in Colorado, so 180hp is the bare
minimum HP requirement with 235HP and above preferred. GPH rates are 14+
for the 235HP at this altitude. Climb rates on hot days are not so great
with heavy gliders either. My UK club operated quite well years ago with
100HP and 130HP Rollson Condors with acceptable climb rates and economy,
though we wouldn't launch two-seaters two up with the 100HP.

FWIW, we've winch launched the past two Saturdays. On the 19th we were
getting 10kts to 14,000msl. Yesterday, 7kts to 10,200msl. Our tow plane is
in the process of getting a 250HP engine replacement/upgrade and new prop
and there should be funds remaining in the engine fund when done, so I think
tow operations are priced about right. I expect fuel consumption to go to
15GPH+, but also expect to see an additional tow per tach hour also.

I hear the new towing operation here in Colorado is shaking out around
$50/3000agl.

"Chris Rollings" wrote in message
...
UK prices equate to around $9 a gallon for 100 LL,
propotional to population we have a larger soaring
community than the US.

At 16:30 26 March 2005, F.L. Whiteley wrote:

'Bill Daniels' wrote in message
...

'Scott' wrote in message
...
Because he's a troll. Yes, complaining about the
airport would be good.
They would just shut down another general aviation
airport. Remember,
if the airport goes away, so does another landing
spot for gliders. I
fly both powered and gliders. I'll bet the airport
was there when
numbnuts bought his house (and he probably doesn't
even live near an
airport) and he didn't have brain one to be able
to think that maybe
someday, someone would actually fly a powered plane
out of that airport.

Scott Littfin


That logic may win a battle but it will eventually
lose the war to keep
small airports open. Once Chicago closed Miegs Field
and got away with
it,
the precedent is set for other airport closure battles.

The only long term solution is that airplanes have
to get much quieter -
fortunately, there are engineering ways to do that.
Retrofitting older
aircraft is possible but big gains have to be designed
in.

Meanwhile, as our European friends have pointed out,
winches rarely annoy
airport neighbors. Modern winches can now provide
as much release height
as
99% of air tows.

The reality is that fuel costs will drive us to winches
which will have
many
former general aviation airfields to operate from
since the Cezzna drivers
won't be able to afford fuel prices.

Bill Daniels

A recent survey apparently indicates the $3/gal is
the break point for large
SUV owners.

Adjusted for 1980 dollars, oil would be $90/barrel
for gas prices to match
those historic levels.

$5/gal 100LL certainly won't inspire growth in the
number of soaring pilots,
but the $25/2000ft tow becomes the $32.50/2000ft tow,
not quite a show
stopper in the near term. Still, it makes the $5-$10/winch
launch a
potential winner.

Frank Whiteley

In article .com,
writes
I live in a relatively quiet city, until recently. A flight school
opened up across the bay from me, and all day long, all I can hear
outside are these private plane motor noises.

It is really awful. It is like having a gas powered lawn mower
above me all day long. As one plane leaves, another one takes
its place. I am grateful when the evening comes, or for a rainy
day, so I wont hear them anymore.

Let's get some noise control on these small planes before we all go
crazy.

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.
--
Mike Lindsay

A recent survey apparently indicates the $3/gal is the break point for large
SUV owners.



Now what kind of survey was that?????
All you have to do is look at Europe to see that those figures are
nonsense. Fuel prices in some countries are approaching double that
price but people are still buying SUV's like crazy.

"Marcel Duenner" wrote in message
om...

A recent survey apparently indicates the $3/gal is the break point for
large
SUV owners.



Now what kind of survey was that?????
All you have to do is look at Europe to see that those figures are
nonsense. Fuel prices in some countries are approaching double that
price but people are still buying SUV's like crazy.

Large SUVs and large distances here. There are many people driving large
SUVs in the US who can ill afford to. Watching the car lots, some of these
lose about 1/3 of their value in 1-2 years and 2/3rds in five. See a lot of
Excursions, Expeditions, Navigators, Escalades, and Hummers in Europe these
days? There are many compact SUVs that are quite economical to drive and
are not the suburban soccer-mom assault vehicles. I think we may be
discussing two different types of SUV. I just visited a couple of Euro
automotive sites and find no similar offerings. Even what's called a van is
a small cousin to what is produced in the US. Seems the RAV-4 type is
popular according to a marketing survey source. It also appears moves are
afoot to close tax loopholes on SUVs in Germany. The mileage loophole that
made them cheaper to produce is being closed in the US.

Frank