Is a motorglider a "powered aircraft"

"T o d d P a t t i s t" wrote in message
...
"private" wrote:
Hello Todd,

Hello "private"

Thank you for the clarification. I am in Canada and am not fully
knowledgable regarding FAA definitions and the use of terms such as rating,
category and class.

I have enjoyed your past posts and think that
You have earned your credibility here and I doubt that you would
jeopardize
this lightly.

Thank you for this comment. I hope I'm not jeopardizing
anything by giving an honest opinion, no matter how
surprising my conclusion may be.


I always appreciate your opinions and conclusions no matter how surprising.
Your past explanations have been very informative and well stated.
Thank you

"Andy" wrote in message
oups.com...
snip
As a practical matter has anyone seen a 337 for a tow hook installation
on a motor glider, or a U.S. registered motor glider with a tow hook
(on the aft end)?


Diamond Katana Xtreme HK36T

from dealer data sheet
tricycle 27:1 or tailwheel 28:1 l/d
mt 1200lb - maxgross 1698lb (Canadian certification, FAA cert 1750?)
span 54'6"
Rotax 914F turbo 115hp - prop hydraulic cs full feathering
factory optional towing kit $4,152
max tow weight 1,156lb

I would suspect (but cannot confirm) that this aircraft is fully certified
by the factory as an FAA motor glider including the tow configuration. I do
not know how it would be defined by FAA

The next question that occurs to me is whether the unfortunate recent 48?hr
commercial glider pilot in Hawaii would have been legal to give scenics or
to tow gliders or banners (shudder) with this aircraft for pay.

There seems to be a lot of over analyzing in this entire thread (IMHO).
"Powered aircraft" has nothing to do with what you are legally authorized to
fly. Powered aircraft is mostly used in regulations dealing with equipment
requirements. What you are authorized to fly is specified by category,
class, and type (if appropriate). The order is significant. The categories
are listed in 61.5 (b). There is no general "aircraft category" rating, but
there are 5 specific aicraft category ratings (airplane, glider, ballon,
rotorcraft, lighter than air, and powered lift). Some are further subdived
into classes (e.g. single engine land, multi-engine sea). Flying a
self-launched motor glider requires an instructor endorsement, as does
high-performance in airplanes.

Paul

"T o d d P a t t i s t" wrote in message
...
"Andy" wrote:

The Feds seem fairly clear about what is meant by a rating - ref:
Rating means a statement that, as a part of a certificate, sets forth
special conditions, privileges, or limitations.

Andy,

I can't tell what point you are trying to make by referring
to the definition of "rating."

The "rating" in question is a private glider certificate.
That rating allows the holder to fly a motorglider. The FAA
considers motorgliders to be "powered aircraft." The basic
glider certificate is what is required to fly the powered
aircraft, and it can be flown even without a self launch
signoff. For example, a turbo sustainer pilot would never
need the self-launch signoff and self launchers can be flow
by aerotow without it.

Thus, IMHO, it's pretty inescapable that the holder of a
private glider certificate "holds at least a private pilot
certificate with a category rating for powered aircraft." Do
you disagree?

(Big snip) AND the insurer may not share the FAA definitions, which may mean
you
will be flying without FAA required insurance.(snip)

I am not aware of a FAR requiring insurance. Is there one?
-Bob Korves

Paul Lynch wrote:
There seems to be a lot of over analyzing in this entire thread
(IMHO).
"Powered aircraft" has nothing to do with what you are legally
authorized to
fly.

You should probably read 61.69 which was the subject of this thread.
The FAA believes, and states, that being rated to fly "powered
aircraft" has everything to do with being qualified to tow.

Andy

OK, but powered aircraft refers to a powered glider or ultralight. There
are some gliders capable of towing a light glider or ultralight. Your
license tells you what AIRCRAFT you can fly, the CFI endorsements can expand
that by adding "subsets" (my choice of word) such as tailwheel, high
performance, or self-launch. Towing is not actually an endorsement. It is
training/currency that must be logged. You will not see any sample
endorsement in the AC covering instructor endorsements concerning towing.

"Andy" wrote in message
ps.com...
Paul Lynch wrote:
There seems to be a lot of over analyzing in this entire thread
(IMHO).
"Powered aircraft" has nothing to do with what you are legally
authorized to
fly.

You should probably read 61.69 which was the subject of this thread.
The FAA believes, and states, that being rated to fly "powered
aircraft" has everything to do with being qualified to tow.

Andy

Actually,

The law allows for the FAA to pay for your legal costs if you win your case
or whatever wrong you were subjected to by them and there's plenty of case
law overturning FAA, NTSB law judge and even Federal court rulings in favor
of the defendant. People have their legal fees reimbursed regularly, it's
all documented on the NTSB legal page. Google it.

Hopefully you'll never need legal assistance, because the FAA rarely goes to
court without a solid plan, but one never knows.

Jim


"private" wrote snip
For anyone planning on doing this use CAUTION as the FAA does not pay for
lawyers themselves

Remember that the FAA (and
the lawyers) always win in the end.

'Towing is not actually an endorsement'...hmmm

I disagree. 61.69 has the word 'endorsement'
in two different places. I would suggest you review
it and
I would then ask if you think a non-regulatory
Advisory Circular supercedes this 61.69 regulation.


The AC has no Sport Pilot endorsements either,
yet I myself have endorsed for this privilege also.
This doesn't bother me in the slightest...

At 17:00 17 May 2005, Paul Lynch wrote:
OK, but powered aircraft refers to a powered glider
or ultralight. There
are some gliders capable of towing a light glider or
ultralight. Your
license tells you what AIRCRAFT you can fly, the CFI
endorsements can expand
that by adding 'subsets' (my choice of word) such
as tailwheel, high
performance, or self-launch. Towing is not actually
an endorsement. It is
training/currency that must be logged. You will not
see any sample
endorsement in the AC covering instructor endorsements
concerning towing.

'Andy' wrote in message
ups.com...
Paul Lynch wrote:
There seems to be a lot of over analyzing in this
entire thread
(IMHO).
'Powered aircraft' has nothing to do with what you
are legally
authorized to
fly.

You should probably read 61.69 which was the subject
of this thread.
The FAA believes, and states, that being rated to
fly 'powered
aircraft' has everything to do with being qualified
to tow.

Andy




Mark J. Boyd