SU-30 MKI at Red Flag Lecture

SU-30 MKI at Red Flag Lecture Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2siH...eature=related

SU-30MKI at Red Flag Lecture Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfXBo...eature=related

Debriefed
Making the rounds in the blogosphere this week is a video showing a
heretofore unidentified Air Force officer’s briefing on the Indian air
force's Su30-MKI's performance at Red Flag 2008 (part 1 is here; part
2 here).
He was “giving a private impromptu briefing in August 2008 to local
Daedalians,” a group of retired military pilots, service.
In his briefing, he said the U.S. F-15 pilots “dominated” in the
exercise, more due to the two countries' aviators' experience than the
capabilities of the respective planes. The Su30-MKI and Eagle are
parallel in capabilties, he added, but the F-22A Raptor's are
superior. The colonel also was critical of French pilots' tactics in
the dogfights. “nor is it Air Force policy to comment on the
performance of U.S. and allied units taking part in Red Flag
exercises.” However, Air Force had no problem describing the Raptor’s
dominance in a Red Flag exercise early in 2007, as Inside the Air
Force reported at the time.

remember the good old days...
Inside the Air Force - 6/4/2004
IAF pilots, aircraft proved formidable

USAF: INDIAN EXERCISES SHOWED NEED FOR F/A-22, CHANGES IN TRAINING

A recent exercise with the Indian Air Force is causing U.S. Air Force
officials to re-evaluate the way the service trains its fighter pilots
while bolstering the case for buying the F/A-22 as a way to ensure
continued air dominance for the United States, according to service
officials. The surprising sophistication of Indian fighter aircraft
and skill of Indian pilots demonstrated at the Cope India air combat
exercise Feb. 15 through 27 at Gwalior Air Force Station, India,
should provide a reality check for those who had assumed unquestioned
U.S. air superiority, service officials who participated in the
exercise said this week. The event was the first-ever air combat
exercise involving the U.S. and India and the most active bilateral
military exchange in over 40 years, according to these officials. The
major takeaway for the Air Force is that our prediction of needing to
replace the F-15 with the F/A-22 is proving out as we get smarter and
smarter about other [countries’] capabilities around the world and
what technology is limited to in the F-15 airframe,” said Col. Mike
Snodgrass, commander of the 3rd Wing at Elmendorf Air Force Base, AK.
“We’ve taken [the F-15] about as far as we can and it’s now time to
move to the next generation.” Snodgrass, who has been selected to
receive his first star, and two other wing officials spoke with Inside
the Air Force June 2. The Air Force has been arguing the absolute
necessity of the F/A-22 since the program began. But the performance
of the Indians in direct competition against the Air Force’s best
fighter, the F-15C, was particularly striking evidence of an
endangered U.S. lead in air combat capability, the statements of
service officials indicate. Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. John Jumper
told the Senate Appropriations defense subcommittee in March that the
results of Cope India were “very revealing,” although he declined to
elaborate in a public forum. Privately, other senior service officials
have pointed to Cope India as evidence that continued U.S. air
superiority is dependent on the F/A-22. Although service officials
have been reluctant to detail how the Indians performed against the
six F-15Cs from the 3rd Wing that participated in Cope India, Rep.
Duke Cunningham (R-CA) said in a Feb. 26 House Appropriations defense
subcommittee hearing that U.S. F-15Cs were defeated more than 90
percent of the time in direct combat exercises against the IAF.
Officials from the 3rd Wing at Elmendorf did not provide specifics
about how their aircraft fared, but said the experience is causing the
service to reevaluate the way it trains its pilots for air-to-air
operations. “What happened to us was it looks like our red air
training might not be as good because the adversaries are better than
we thought,” Snodgrass said. “And in the case of the Indian Air Force
both their training and some of their equipment was better than we
anticipated.” “Red air” refers to the way the Air Force simulates
enemy capability in air combat training. Because the service has
assumed for years that its fighters are more capable than enemy
aircraft, the U.S. pilots that simulate the enemy, known as “red”
forces, in air combat training are required to operate under rules
that constrain their combat capability. “We have always believed that
our technology was superior to everyone else’s technology, that we
would fight a somewhat inferior adversary, so we have had to supply a
simulated adversary from our own resources; we call that ‘red air,’”
Snodgrass said. As a result, Air Force pilots are used to flying
against an enemy whose combat capability is deliberately limited.
“There are maneuvering limits as well as weapons employment limits,
what we believe enemy aircraft may be able to do with their weapons
systems, so we try to simulate that in our own airplane with our own
weapons,” Snodgrass explained. “It becomes very complex because
instead of using the airplane the way it was designed, you now have to
come up with rules of thumb that limit what you do and cause you to
not perform . . . the way we really would want to in combat.” The Cope
India exercises consisted of air combat maneuvers in which pilots
would practice their fighter tactics and fly against each other one-on-
one, as well as simulated combat scenarios. It was during this
simulated combat, which included both “offensive counterair” and
“defensive counterair” scenarios, that the Indians proved the most
formidable, according to the 3rd Wing officials. In the offensive
counterair scenarios, a small number of F-15Cs would attempt to
intercept an enemy strike aircraft en route to a target that was
guarded by a larger number of Indian fighters. In the defensive
counterair missions, the F-15s would attempt to defend a target
against Indian fighters. In these offensive and defensive missions,
four F-15Cs were usually flying against 10 or 12 of the same model
Indian fighter, according to Col. Greg Neubeck, deputy commander of
operations for the wing’s 3rd Operations Group and exercise director
for Cope India. The 3rd Operations Group is responsible for the 3rd
Wing’s flying mission. The Indians flew a number of different
fighters, including the French-made Mirage 2000 and the Russian-made
MIG-27 and MIG-29, but the two most formidable IAF aircraft proved to
be the MIG-21 Bison, an upgraded version of the Russian-made baseline
MIG-21, and the SU-30K Flanker, also made in Russia, Neubeck said. He
emphasized the fact that U.S. forces were always outnumbered in these
scenarios, but said the missions proved more difficult than expected.
“What we faced were superior numbers, and an IAF pilot who was very
proficient in his aircraft and smart on tactics. That combination was
tough for us to overcome,” Neubeck said. One reason the Indian pilots
proved so formidable is that their training regimen does not include a
concept of “red air.” Instead, “they fly pretty much blue-on-
blue . . . [a] full-up airplane with no restrictions against somebody
else’s airplane with no restrictions, and that leads to more
proficiency with your aircraft,” Neubeck said. In addition to
reinforcing the need for the F/A-22, therefore, Cope India
demonstrated that the service might be able to immediately improve its
air combat capability by changing the way Air Force pilots train. “The
Air Force is re-examining, from what I can understand, our concept of
red air and how we might be able to provide red air to our fighter
forces so that we get [the best] training we can afford,” Snodgrass
said. Neubeck said the service probably needs to “take off the
handcuffs that we put on our red air training aids and allow them to
be more aggressive and make the red air tougher than we have in the
past.” Although India is a friendly nation, the lesson of Cope India
is that almost any nation could surpass the United States’ air combat
capability if the Pentagon does not continue to invest in better
training and technology, the Elmendorf officials said. At last count,
for example, there were over 5,000 MIG-21s active in air forces around
the world, Snodgrass said. Even American fighters, such as Boeing’s
F-15, are being sold in upgraded versions to countries around the
world. “I believe what this demonstrates is that the capacity exists
out there for any nation with the appropriate resources and the will
to acquire technology and to train their aircrews to be very, very
capable,” said Col. Russ Handy, commander of the 3rd Operations Group.
“In the long term this could occur in nations outside of the Indian
Air Force.” The Air Force will get another chance to test its
capabilities against the Indians in July, when the IAF will bring its
Jaguar fighter-bomber aircraft to Eielson AFB, AK, for the Cooperative
Cope Thunder exercise. The 3rd Wing officers said their pilots had not
yet flown against an Indian-piloted Jaguar.

There's already a thread on this at:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...5c8859d4?hl=en